Episode 68: Who Is Wellness For? (with Fariha Róisín)
What does the word “wellness” even mean anymore? In this one, Ev'Yan speaks to poet, artist, and author, Fariha Roisin, about self-care, collective healing, wellness culture, and this question, "Who is wellness for?"—also the title of Fariha's soon-to-be-released book. Fariha shines light on the “wellness industrial complex” and how consumerism and capitalism have disconnected us from what it truly means for us to be well. They also speak about messy, non-linear processes of healing, the ways can interrogate our own participation in wellness culture, and the things that keep Fariha feeling well in her own body.
Ev’Yan also makes an announcement about the show!
The full transcript of this episode is below.
Links/mentions:
The Cancer Journals by Audre Lorde
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Fariha Róisín is a multidisciplinary artist, born in Ontario, Canada. She was raised in Sydney, Australia, and is based in Los Angeles, California. As a Muslim queer Bangladeshi, she is interested in the margins, in liminality, otherness and the mercurial nature of being. Her work has pioneered a refreshing and renewed conversation about wellness, contemporary Islam and queer identities and has been featured in The New York Times, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, and Vogue. She is the author of the poetry collection How To Cure A Ghost (2019), as well as the novel Like A Bird (2020). Her upcoming work is a book of non-fiction entitled, Who Is Wellness For? out spring 2022, her second book of poetry is entitled Survival Takes a Wild Imagination.
Transcription:
Hey, welcome to Sensual Self. I'm Ev'Yan Whitney and this is a space for you to slow down, tune in, heal and feel the sensations and pleasures of your sensual body. Thank you for being here.
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Hey, everyone, I am so happy to be here with you again. So happy to be in your ears. And I want to start this conversation by asking a question that I've been turning over in my head for the past few months. What is wellness? Like, what does wellness mean? What does wellness look like in practice?
I've been having a really hard time answering this question. I mean, I know what I've been told and sold that wellness is. You know, it's expensive candles around a CBD infused bath because literally everything is CBD right now. It's exclusive 10 Day retreats in Bali or Costa Rica. Wellness is a specific BMI and a certain level of spiritual enlightenment. It's healing yourself and all of your complex traumas in one fell swoop through watching someone's webinar. Wellness is hot yoga, and juice cleanses and granola bars. Or at least that's what this ad I heard on a podcast told me. As an aside, I did a Google to see what comes up when I type in the word wellness. And here's what was on the front page, Pfizer, which is a pharmaceutical company, Goop because, of course it is, and a dog food brand, because apparently our dogs need wellness too.
If it sounds like I've got a whole attitude about this, it's because I do. Wellness, as a word, as a concept, has been so steeped in consumerism and capitalism that it's been very hard for me to think about it as an intimate practice for myself, and also a standard of existence that should be available for everyone. I don't want to believe that wellness is about buying shit or becoming something you're currently not. And I also don't want to believe that wellness is for a specific group of people with a certain tax bracket. I mean, intuitively, I know it's much, much deeper than that. But what other models do we have of wellness right now, outside of the very loud ads we see and hear on a daily basis, outside of the shiny and aesthetically pleasing products that are constantly enticing us with this copy to center, our wellness, whatever that means. Wellness has become more than a buzzword. It's become completely inaccessible to me and probably to you too. So what is wellness, actually? And who is wellness for?
To help us answer these questions and guide us into our own interrogation of the wellness industry. I have artist, poet, and author Fariha Róisín on today to talk all about wellness and also her book, Who Is Wellness For? We talk about the wellness industrial complex and what true wellness is outside of the noise and distortion of capitalism and whiteness. We talk about self-care and the messy processes of healing. We talked about climate change because how can we even think about our personal wellness without considering how the pursuit of that is affecting the Earth. And Fariha shares some wisdom about how we can be in right relationship with wellness both for ourselves and for others.
There are so many gems in this one and I highly recommend that you take your time with this episode as I recommend with all episodes of Sensual Self. You know, really pause and process the feelings that come up in your body through Fariha's words. I know that they brought up a lot for me as I was having this conversation with her. This is definitely an episode to listen to with your full attention, if possible.
Oh, and I almost forgot. This is the last episode of sensual self for this season. After this one, I'll be taking the summer to rest and dream up new discussions for you about sensuality, sexuality, healing, and sure, wellness. So enjoy this conversation while it lasts. Savor each moment. And I'll be back in a bit with a practice for your sensual self in the meantime. Enjoy.
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Fariha, thank you so much for being on essential self. And I'm so excited to chat with you today.
Fariha Róisín
Me too. Thank you for having me.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes, I have been diving into your book, who is wellness for. And I've just been so excited that this book is coming into being that you were the person that wrote this book, it's so important. As someone who is both a part of the wellness industry and also sort of a participant of it as well, I have so many feelings about wellness that it was really beautiful to read some of your thoughts and your feelings about it, as well as just like I don't know, I just I felt so much vulnerability and rawness on the page. And I just first off, just want to say thank you for this beautiful offering of a book that is both- It's both I feel like an offering of the heart and also a call to action, if that makes sense. So yes, I just wanted to say thank you for that.
Fariha Róisín
Thank you. Thank you so much for being with my words.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. I have so many questions. But I actually want to ask you before we get started, what does wellness as a word mean to you? For better or worse.
Fariha Róisín
Ah, yeah. Without all of the ideas and all the packaging of wellness, I think wellness, the idea of being well, or the idea of well-ish, that that should mean something that's evident and possible for anyone. And I think that's sort of where the book kind of comes into question, because I'm asking something even about how we think about wellness. And what is wellness for all of us individually, and then collectively. So yeah, it's a good question. And for me, at least, it's it's something that's accessible to everybody.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Mm hmm. I love that you said accessibility to everybody. Because I've been thinking about what does wellness mean, you know, it's become a word that has been used, and I would say maybe abused, because of just how much of an industry it's become. And I was thinking about, you know, this question that I was going to ask you about, you know, what does wellness mean to you? And I was- I posed it to myself, and I'm like, I don't know, if I know, you know, I think I think I have kind of a faint idea of what I want it to mean. But we're in a world and in a culture that tells us what wellness looks like, you know, and I was finding it a little difficult to answer my own question because it's— there's just so much gunk that's been caked on to that word. It's been difficult for me to like, get to the root of what it actually means.
Fariha Róisín
And I think that that's how evades a lot of us because we don't have to think that deeply about it, especially if, you know, we're participating in it. And a lot of us are, I say I am of course I am participating in it, because it's still not accessible to so many and, and yet at the same time, I would also argue that for someone like me, I wouldn't be here if I didn't participate in it. I wouldn't be alive if I hadn't found wellness protocols or wellness I guess just like examples and practices that I was able to do adopt at a really young age that helped me survive. And that helped me sort of get to where I am now. It's sad that we, for those of us who can afford to take care of ourselves or to be well, I think a lot of us get bought by capitalism, a lot of us get bought by the belief that like, and it's not like, it's not a true belief, but it's like, I think, like, the issue with capitalism is that it just, it just takes over. And then there's no consideration of anything else, you know? The danger that we all fall prey to, is the fact that like, capitalism makes these things like so alluring. You know, of course, we should be able to take care of ourselves, of course, we should be able to, you know, spend on things that our bodies need in order to be well, but and then at the same time I come back to, not only is it not accessible, but also comes from people that don't have access to it by and large and who can't afford these resources. But that's their cultural and, and religious and spiritual heritage. So it's, it's that much more complicated. And the cont- the convolutedness, in which we kind of navigate wellness is so much a construct of the wellness industrial complex, like they want us to not really think that deeply about it.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Mm hmm. Yes, yes. I want to ask, just because as a writer, I'm always so curious about the inspiration or sort of the catalyst that brought you to want to write this book. I mean, I see this as a creation of you. I just wrote a book and it's like a baby for me. And so I'm like, I want to know how and why people created their babies, too. So what was it that like really prompted you or just sort of catapulted you into wanting to write a book about wellness?
Fariha Róisín
Um, I started writing about wellness and self-care, as constructs in 2014. And I very much like looked to the words of Audrey Lorde and bell hooks were, for me are sort of like the, I guess, really important spokespeople for how self-care even became a thing in the first place. Like they both wrote really diligently about the practice and process of self-care, you know. And, like, throughout, throughout their lives, there was a consideration in questioning, especially because Audrey died of cancer and like, was all like, even in The Cancer Journals, which is an incredible book. You know, there's like this, like, push and pull between, like, like, life questions, like big life questions, pertaining to death. But then there's also like, a lot of profound questions about what it means to be a person in those times, specifically, and I guess I just like, really saw my writing, and wanted my writing to be in conversation with the unknown, and with the things that are unsaid, and I wasn't really seeing writing like that anymore, in the way, you know, have this sort of certain language. And like, I don't know, I think writing about illness and writing about pain and writing about grief. As well as writing about self-care and wellness, they're there to sort of-- meet each other in a lot of ways. Because, you know, at least for me, and in my life, like so much of my trauma was the gateway to like beauty and was the gateway to just like actually taking care of myself. And so I think all of for all of those reasons, and all of those different kinds of inspirations I was able to just be like, this is the kind of writing I want to pursue.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Hmm, that's beautiful. Yeah. As I'm as I am reading your book, I think the reason why it speaks to me so much is because what you said is so true that, I mean, and I haven't read every single book on the face of the planet, but I feel like there is an earnestness- I don't know if that's a word, but there's there's a there's an aspect of being earnest in the way that you tell your story and the ways that you are questioning and working to dismantle and decolonize wellness that I also don't see that often. And Yeah, it just, it just feels like your voice feels so raw and so real while also just imploring us to question these things that seem like a given for us, you know?
Fariha Róisín
Mm hmm. Thank you so much. I. Yeah, I think the earnestness is something that you're right. I don't see very often in writing even and like, in a way that sort of questions and challenges, my question and challenge myself a lot, too. And I think that that's really important. And I kind of, yeah, I want to be a participant in culture and help ask those questions that others aren't asking about something that's larger and bigger than just us, you know?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, one of the things that really struck me in your writing of this book was that you were so I don't know if generous is the right word, but that's what's coming up for me, like you were so generous in sharing the pain and the trauma and the messy process of you, healing from the abuse that you experienced from your childhood. And I was, as I was reading this, I was like, first of all, I was just like, god damn, this is a lot. You know, like, it's a lot, I just, my heart was just so full. And I just, I just felt for you just thinking about, like, how can this how can one human being take in, like, all of this as an experience, you know, so my heart was just, I said, my heart was full, but it was like broken. And then there's this other thing that happened in my brain where I was like, I felt kind of shocked that you went there, because it would have been so easy. And I think we've seen this in other books or other offerings that people have given us that you could have just like, not gone there, you could have just been like, sitting on a pedestal, sort of, and being like, here is my interpretation or my perspective of what the wellness industry is and why it's broken, and why it's flawed. Like, you could have easily done that. And I just felt really like-- I felt shocked and relieved, I think that you brought some humanity to something that, I don't know, sometimes wellness feels so, I don't know, the image that's coming to mind is like very glossy, like behind a glass door. It's like It looks beautiful. There's like mirrors and lights like wellness is shown to us as that and I felt that the way that you just sort of like cracked that glass door, cracked that mirror and how to see like, no, this is fucking wellness, y'all. Like, I know, you want to think that it is a face mask and $85 candles. But like, if we're going to talk about wellness, we have to talk about this. I'm just like, prattling on. My question I guess there's just like...Why was it that it felt important to you to include your messy process? Because like, you totally didn't have to, and a lot of people just don't, you know?
Fariha Róisín
Yeah, because I wanted that humanity. Like, I think that that's something that I have, that's a gift to bring the humanity into situations and to also show that it's not, I think, like the kind of writing that's also on a pedestal and sort of like pointing fingers. It's not interesting to me. It's, you know, it's not, because like, we are all complicit, we are all part of it. And, and we, in order to really look at it in a way that's actually like, profound to me is to be like, This is how I also fail. And this is also how I live. This is the very messy and real aspects of my life that have brought me here to this immense revelation. And so I think that as much as like the work is like I think the early chapters are quite hard. I think by the end of the book and sort of towards the like middle half it becomes more like about facing sort of the more like yeah, profound and beautiful aspects of it. But something that while you were speaking, you know, that glass door that you're talking about, I mean, I also had to talk about whiteness and whiteness has bought wellness. So that's why your idea of, even our idea of wellness is that it's like this like pristine thing that when it's actually not and it actually never was and it was really a quite inclusive reality for people and like being well shouldn't be something that is exclusive. It's ridiculous and inhumane for us to live in a time in the world where people don't have something as simple and basic as universal health care. So when you live in a country that encourages that reality that says no, actually, it's actually not our responsibility then everything doesn't isn't their responsibility, including community care, including actually like showing up for the people that you live next to. And why is it that we have such extreme wealth juxtaposed against, you know, some of the most hostile and in, like, awful conditions possible in this country? Like, it says a lot about that void between, you know, those two realities. And I think, again, capitalism goes so hand in hand with whiteness, that there's a mirage that they've created, you know, like, this is what you should want. And this is what you should aspire for. Believing, making us think yet again, that if we buy into this, then we can, you know, achieve a sense of like, I don't know, like, whatever they have, but it's, it's, it's, it's not, we don't actually want it because it's all a lie.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes.
Fariha Róisín
And so, to go back, I think, to me, so much of what this country needs is to go back to the original foundation and like, start to do that work ground up, I don't actually think that there's any other way. And so, similarly, with wellness, you have to kind of go back to yourself and start to see, okay, like, how do I how am I participating? How am I complicit? Where do I have more responsibility? And obviously, if you're white person, there's so many other steps that you need to be taking. And I think the book just had to show like, I wanted it to be an invitation. As I didn't want it to just be something where it's like, you guys suck and like you ruined half the world. Ruined everything
Ev'Yan Whitney
That would have been the book that I wrote. Like, who was all this for? Not you people. Wellness is for the brown, the black, like that would have been me but that's why you wrote it.
Fariha Róisín
It needs to be written as well.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah.
Fariha Róisín
I think there also needs to be a bucket sort of, like— yeah, more in invitation and inviting sort of hand to-- and nothing is sugarcoated, nothing is sugarcoated, but it's like, I can look you in the eye and tell you, you know? And that's kind of what I'm trying to do. Like, I'm trying to look people in the eye and be like, here, this is how we're both responsible.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes.
Fariha Róisín
And also naming that that responsibility isn't actually on all of us equally. But we all have to take responsibility nonetheless. Like it's both and. And so. Yeah, that's a long answer to your question.
Ev'Yan Whitney
No, that was beautiful. That was beautiful. Actually, when you were speaking and you mentioned whiteness, something dinged in my head about, you know, like, going back to the reason why I couldn't really answer that question of like, what does wellness mean? I think because it's been so convoluted by whiteness, like, I can't hear the word wellness, and I hate this, but I can't hear the word wellness without thinking about Gwyneth Paltrow, and Goop. And that's like, Gwyneth Paltrow and Goop isn't the only manifestation of wellness. I would, I would argue that Goop isn't really a manifestation of wellness at all. But I mean, that's, that's for another topic for another time. But I want to be in a place within both like the personal work that I do, and also the professional work that I do as someone who gets lumped into this category of like, wellness, a wellness expert, or a Wellness Educator, whatever, where I can hear that word, and it has been decolonized from whiteness. And I don't I don't know if that is possible in this lifetime. Because I feel like the deeper we go into what you describe and talk about in your book, The Wellness industrial complex, which I would love to have you define that for us here today. But I feel like the deeper that we go into it, the deeper we're getting into whiteness and Goop and $200 CBD lubes that are supposed to like heal our sexual trauma. Like it's just-- I'm just ranting. But yeah, that's that's what came up for me as I was hearing you speak.
Fariha Róisín
I think the book, you know, like, I am very much sort of pivoting a lot of my work into writing about ecology and thinking a lot about ecocide. And I think that The only way that we can all get on the same page is if we realize that we are on the brink of extinction. Like, it's so bad, it's so bad. And I think we think we have this idea of like, you know, life continues. Russia invades Ukraine, like everything is like just as normal, but I don't think we see like, all the collapsing fragments that are happening, and this earth is showing us that she can't take it anymore. And she will stop things. And the pandemic was just, I think, for me, astrologically, it was just a beginning of something that's immensely pivotal in the evolution of our species, I believe. And so I actually think, and this is why the book is a call to action as you pointed out. To me, it's like, not only do we not have time to not believe in what is possible, but in fact that we actually have to believe that everything is possible. And that, like, our imagination against white supremacy needs to actually like, be so high, like, we have to be thinking of that utopia and those, you know, dream portals for people, because I do think it's possible. And I think that, like something like abolition, the fact that it like, became mainstream, like people know what fucking abolition is.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah.
Fariha Róisín
That is, to me, a significant sign of the times are changing. And I know, what does it feel so glacial and it doesn't feel like enough. But I do think that the times ahead of us are really dark. And we have a lot to actually face. And I don't think that this work is actually I think that a lot more people don't realize that it's just, it's, it's gonna happen, whether we like it or not, I think that the earth is just going to show us a lot. And so I'm trusting her and I'm taking her guidance. And I this way, I feel like I've just become a defender of the Earth now. And, like, that's sort of where I see my, like, my passion, and it's how I kind of see this, like, light, that, you know, this torch that I'm bearing, it's, it's for the belief that we have to protect this planet.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes, yes. I wholeheartedly agree. And it's like it's fucking scary. You know? Like, yeah, like, I agree with everything that you're saying. And I'm also feeling in my own body, just like the fear of that, like we are on a planet that is sick of our bullshit. And will, sure enough, extract us from it in order to save itself like that is both terrifying. And also, I like what you said about trusting the guidance of the earth like just like going with the Earth's flow as opposed to I mean, I don't know, maybe you are collapsing into fear, my first thing to do is like collapse into fear of like, oh, wow, Armageddon, and the apocalypse and things like that. But I think yeah, I think that there's, we can't talk about wellness, if we're not also talking about how we're treating and taking care of the Earth that we live in. And I think that's one of the things that gets lost. I mean, so many things get lost in this conversation of wellness. But I think that's one of the big ones. There's something that you talk about in your book about how like, wellness is seen as an individual thing that we are all to aspire to achieve and like get to, but we rarely think about wellness as like, okay, but if I'm, well, how can I make other people like well with me, or like, I'm not well, unless my community around me is well like this collective wellness, that that is so important. Yeah, I wonder if you could speak a little bit to that. But also, actually, I'd love for you to define the wellness industrial complex, because when I heard that, I was like, Oh, yes, this is exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is.
Fariha Róisín
Well, yeah, I mean, much like the prison industrial complex it is a, you know, it's a system that is held up by capitalism and relies on in the case of wellness to extract from the global south in order to feed the north and to in order to feed sort of the West consumption and greed and that process of extraction and process of trade that is unfair on every demographic, and even things like I sort of talked about this in the book too, like, you know, there's been a lot of union laws that have protected American citizens, but then those companies go to the global South, they go to China, they go to Bangladesh, to make cheap labor. And then, you know, the unions that are protecting people's livelihood in America aren't considering the sort of impact and the ways in which like, we are, like, actually responsible for so much, and that it can't just be we're thinking about climate in America, we have to be thinking about climate everywhere, because the Earth is an example that we all share one space, and we actually need and rely on each other. And we, and we have, of course, we have necessary means of, of, I don't know, I think like, existing with one another, it's something that capitalism has also like, really obstructed for us, because now we feel like we don't actually need one another, we just need ourselves, or we just need sort of a good life for a good family or, you know, a good partner. And then my children, like, it's become, you know, removing sort of that community bond or like, the extended family and becoming just very sort of like, you know, the, the two person households, you know, like, the very traditional that has, then yeah, really kind of put into the public and society an idea that reliance upon others, your neighbors, or your community is actually, like, poor. Like, you know, it's like really sort of trying to bring, like, again, this elitism of like, you only need yourself. So the more money you have, the more you just have to think about yourself, but then we're seeing people with immense amounts of money, that are not happy. That are just completely sad, and are addicted and, you know, have addiction, sorry, have addictions. But also, what's the word like? Just they're not-- They're clearly not happy.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah.
Fariha Róisín
And to me, it's like, how are we not using that as an example of like, there's clearly some thinking and processing that we're still that we still have to do as a society to figure out what is wellness for all of us. It can't just be this like capitalist idea of what's well. And that's what they're trying to sell to all of us.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think that we can do as participants in this wellness industrial complex? For better or worse, like how can we be more involved in holding the wellness industry accountable? And then also, how do you imagine that we can be in right relationship with wellness? And I know, as I asked that question, I'm like, that's like trying to be in right relationship with the white supremacist, patriarchal capitalism, like we are literally in the soup. I don't even know if that's possible. But I just wonder if, if anything's coming to mind for you about that.
Fariha Róisín
I'll answer the first part first because I think that that's really interesting, because I think you can be in right relationship with wellness. I think Vedic scholars who like we're thinking about yoga and thinking about meditation and thinking about the construction of the human mind, they weren't trying to just make it information that they had, they were, they were making it happen and possible for other people. So I think that, you know, it's not, it's not so much not participating. It's making sure that you're working. If you're a yoga studio, for example, really considering how much money are you giving back to Indian farmers, Indian indigenous folks that are being removed from their home and by the Indian government. You know, there was a farmer strike from like 2020 to 2021 that was the biggest strike in the world. And these farmers are the farmers that get us ashwagandha that get us the turmeric that we use, they get us the ginger, they get us the cardamom like, these are the people that we rely on for a billion dollar industry and they're fighting against the Indian government because they're not being protected. What does that say about them and how much they are being extracted their labor and their work. And honestly, it's sad because like a lot of these families also are it's generational work, it's the work that their ancestors were doing that they were living off of that they were able to take care of their families with. And now, that relationship has completely changed. And so I think that there is an immense responsibility, especially if any kind of white-owned company that works with indigenous medicines from across the world is not specifically to India, But you know, so there's this kind of extraction is happening immensely all over. And so I think that in itself that that idea of extraction needs to be challenged. And we need to start putting pressure on people that we know and put putting pressure on the Goops to be like, What are you doing? Like, what is-- how much are you giving back? Because, again, like, okay, great, we should if we're in the feet of us all, wanting to be well, everyone should have access to it, then it's good that this conversation is more relevant and possible, not just to you and me that it's possible and accessible to anyone, wherever, like anyone who reads my book, or listens to this podcast is now able to think about these things. That's really cool. So the more that that conversation extends, the more people will be able to like question, what is wellness for them? At the same time, I think what needs to happen is that we actually need to start putting, yeah, real pressure, and having those real conversations where it's not just also talking about how do we make money? How do we build a brand? How do we do whatever? It's actually being like, How can we ethically be in right relationship? I think that conversation actually needs to happen on every level, like, how are we in right relationship with the turmeric that we're sourcing? How are we in right relationship with the cardamom farmer? How are we making sure that you know, like, if we are making a $200 CBD cream that helps you do X, Y, and Z that we're actually, you know, trying to work with people that like there's, there's like, incredible organizations now, I can't remember off the top of my head that are doing immensely important legal work by like, helping Black men, brown men are still in jail for petty crimes, you know, usually having marijuana like these things need to be addressed. Like you can't be having a company that's a million dollar company and not actually be thinking about how am I actively helping my community and actually making sure that I'm considering how I exist in community, which means like looking outside of yourself, and that I just think hasn't happened yet. Like, we're just here to make money. And we're not thinking about, like, how does that impact everyone around us?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Right, right. Yeah, what I also am hearing in your response is like, it starts with also ourselves asking ourselves, like, what relationship do I have with my own wellness? You know, like, what are the ways that I might have been dissociated from the power that I have to keep myself well or to take care of myself? Like, I think about that a lot. Yeah, I'm thinking about like, even in, in my own experience, like what relationship do I have with making myself well? And what are the myths, perceptions or falsehoods that I've been given about, like what wellness needs to look like? And I feel like wellness and self-care go really hand in hand. So I'm even thinking about that like how self-care has turned into this like fucking buzzword to—
Fariha Róisín
Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
—again, sell us shit that we need to do to demonstrate that we are self-caring. And so yeah, I'm thinking about like, Oh, what are the ways that like, I have been sold this idea that self-care is in a product? Or to have a company tell me that this is what I need in order to take care of myself? Yeah, these are just questions that are coming up for me right now. And it's, it's, it's making me think just like how potent and vibrant this conversation is. And also, like how virtually no one is really having it, you know?
Fariha Róisín
Yeah, there's so much that I could say about self-care being bought and this idea of self-care being tied and tethered completely to capitalism. And for me, the way that I have kind of extricated myself from that is by reminding myself that self-care is free, and self-care should be free. And that when I'm sort of expecting, or like, you know, putting pressure on myself to like, you know, buy something nice for myself, because I achieved something. Um, I'm trying to reframe that and be like, what can I do for myself, that doesn't cost me anything? Something recently, because I have pretty bad IBS that I've had since I was 14. And my body has always been in revolt, which is also one of the major reasons I think I started writing this book, like, I needed to understand how to be well, like, actually. And so only recently, I'm 32, so I've had this for more than half my life, I've begun to understand something as simple as like, eating kitchari. Um, like, over many, many days, and kitchari is like a blend of lentils, and basmati rice,
Ev'Yan Whitney
I've heard of, it sounds so delicious.
Fariha Róisín
It's so good. And it's the fruit of my ancestors, I was raised on this food, and I hated it, because it was so bland and so boring. But the older I got, and really, honestly, just recently, like, I, I started eating aromatically, a couple of years ago, and it's been a process of sort of bringing that into my life. And kitchari is an ayurvedic dish that helps you reset your body. And so it completely, you know, if you've been having, you know, stomach pains, or if you've just like, drunk too much alcohol, if you've just been overeating, it's, it's a really good just like, reset, especially if you've been eating too much meat or whatever. And it's something as simple as that, like, I'm just going to make myself kitchari, a pot of kitchari, every week, I'm going to make my own ghee, and cook it by myself, you know, do everything by myself, like my ancestors would have. And I'm going to feed myself. Even though it feels like the opposite of what I think, for me personally, what's taking care of myself, which often has something to do with food, like I want to go out, and I want to have a really good meal, and I'm gonna have a glass of wine. That's how I see like treating myself. And then a couple of months ago, my therapist asked me, why is you treating yourself always things, doing things that will harm your body later? Like drinking or you know, and like eating like dairy or like, whatever I'm like craving. You know, why is it that that's what I actually want? And that's what taking care of myself is when I actually don't feel good afterwards? And that was a really big, like, moment of like, holy shit, right. Like, I can actually crave the things that are good for me. Whoa. And just that small, sort of like, reframe has really helped me recently, like not, I think, fall into, again, I think the pressure of capitalism to like, go on Caviar and order myself something because I'm like, it's so much easier not to actually cook for myself when in fact, the reality for me and my body is that if I cook for myself, I'm always happier. And that's the negotiation.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Wow, what you just said, just brought me back to I have a really, really bad pastry habit. People who listen to my podcast know this about me. I love anything that is a baked sweet, good, I will put it in my mouth. And I'm thinking you just saying that just now is reminding me of all the times where I've had a really, really hard day or like I've been really anxious or I'm feeling depressed. And I actually did this a couple of weeks ago, I baked a cake. I was like I'm baking this super dense and delightful Devil's Food Cake. It's like the best chocolate cake I've ever had in my life. And that process of cooking and baking is very tactile for me. It helps me come into my body. But also eating it doesn't often make me feel good. I'm very sensitive to sugar and caffeine. So, I can only have like small bites otherwise, like my blood pressure goes straight up or like I feel just absolutely high, because I've had too much chocolate. And yeah, you just saying that was like a gentle call-in for me to think about the ways that I I also associate taking care of myself with things that are going to make me feel bad later. Like last night I had way too much ice cream, I should not be eating ice cream, and I was so bloated and gassy. But I'm like, I don't know, there's a part of me that's like, well, that's just part of the process. Beauty is pain, as they say, but it's like, whoa wait, but what if it's not though?
Fariha Róisín
What if it's not?
Ev'Yan Whitney
What if it doesn't have to be like that?
Fariha Róisín
And that, you know, and it's so and I think that so much of like, what I think about on the daily is like, what if we just sort of like stop looking at that from that point of angle? And just looked at it from there? Like, what if we just shifted it, like just even in a small way you would be then looking at something entirely different. And that would help you understand it differently. But I think like, we're people that we get told things from a young age about what we like and about who we are. And so I think our sense of identity and safety is so tied to those ideas of who we once were, that maybe are no longer serving us and like, yeah, what does it mean, if the thing that you're craving, or the thing that brings you release is something that at the end of the day, you can't really put into your body? Like there's a metaphor there.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I'm going to be sitting with this for a while. Because yeah, that just blew my mind. So thank you for that. Oh, wow. Um, as we close this conversation, I want to ask you like, as a queer, brown person, living in this wild, fucked up world that we live in, working to dismantle and decolonize wellness, amongst many other things, because I know wellness is tied to so much- What are the ways that you take care of yourself? Like how do you nourish yourself? And what does--What are some wellness practices that you engage in to keep yourself grounded?
Fariha Róisín
Um, I also remembered one of the organizations that I really love Last Prisoner Project that that's helping give legal aid to a lot of folks in jail for crimes pertaining to marijuana. So just wanted to say that.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes, thank you.
Fariha Róisín
Okay, how I ground is, I pray every day, and my relationship to God is one of the most profound if not the most profound relationship that I have. I, you know, because of the ways that my life has turned out I've had, I've just been really isolated and alone, and I've needed to find safety in myself and in my aloneness. And so, spirit and divine has really helped me ground and tether myself to something and believes that I have a larger purpose. And I think that's, you know, so much of why I'm alive and that process alongside prayer and pulling Tarot I pull Tarot every day. That practice has really helped me. Like, understand the intricacies and the magic of the of the world and of each day and of the time, because there's so much energy right now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes.
Fariha Róisín
And to be able to see it in the cards is really helpful, because I'm like, okay, I get it. Okay, thank you. Um, and then I cook a lot, I cook, I cook as much as I possibly can, each week, and I have recently been just paying attention to like, the small things like, am I eating too much meat? Am I actually do I need to just like, not drink for a while, and, and really just allowing my body to be the roadmap because I think a lot of us have really responsive bodies that we then teach to dull those sensations because we don't actually want to pay attention.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's right.
Fariha Róisín
And I think, you know, it has been really profound for me to actually start to listen to what my body is saying and be like, Oh, okay, yeah. What if I didn't drink caffeine today? Like, what if that's actually my body's saying, Hey, I don't like this. What if I like actually paid attention while I'm in the process of doing it, and stopped instead of being like, let me just finish this and then you know, then I'll figure it out. And usually, inevitably, by the time I finished, like that glass of wine, or that glass of coffee, I feel so shit anyway, that I am so beyond like I'm disassociated from myself. So I think it's just like finding presence, finding safety in myself, that's been really, really, that's been like a four year journey that I've been on. And yeah, it's actually been probably the most significant self-care practice that I've been able to adopt into my life that's really helped.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's beautiful. That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing those things. And for reminding me and everyone else who's listening have like the power of simplicity. You know, I think one thing that comes up for me a lot around taking care of myself is that it just feels like there's so much to do. And I think that that also comes from capitalism to like, there's like, you have to buy so many things. And there's so many steps, and it has to be convoluted and, you know, complex and have all these different things with it. And I just really appreciate you giving us permission to like, simplify that process. Like there is magic and cooking yourself a good meal like that is self-care. It may not look as glamorous or Instagrammable as I think wellness has been sold to us as looking like but but it's okay for us to seek those things that can help us come back home to ourselves. And that is a private act. You know, it's not something that somebody else needs to gaze upon, or affirm or validate. Yeah, I just, I've learned so much from this conversation, I am so deeply enjoying your book, I cannot wait for my copy to come in the mail I preordered. And I want you to tell folks how they can you know, find your book, I know it's going to be coming out really, really soon. So yes, how can we support you and tell us where we can get your book.
Fariha Róisín
Thank you for this conversation. It's been, it's been really important for me to like, synthesize my thoughts. So I really appreciate just being able to talk to you about everything. So to support my book, I would say go to any local bookstore and preorder it or you can also I have on my website FarihaRoisin.com. I have like a tab for Who Is Wellness For? and then there's like bookstores in London, bookstores in Sydney, bookstores in Montreal that I've just like, put that for anyone who's like in those cities, they can like preorder it there as well. And IndieBound is also a good one for online just type in Who Is Wellness For? and you will find me.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Amazing. And is there anywhere else folks can find you on the internet if they want to follow your work or your art or anything?
Fariha Róisín
Yes, you can find my newsletter at FarihaRoisin.substack.com. And then you can find me on Instagram @Fariha_Roisin. I'm so bad at this.
Ev'Yan Whitney
No, you're doing fabulous. You're doing great. Thank you so much. I'm going to make sure to put links to get your book in the description or in the show notes of this episode. And yes, thank you so much, again, for this labor of love and this call to action that you've created in this book. Like I said, I've already been changed by it as I've been changed by this conversation. So I just really appreciate you.
Fariha Róisín
I really appreciate you too. And I'm really grateful that you gave me so much time and I hope that we meet in person.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes, I would like that. Anytime you think you'll be coming out to LA just let me know.
Fariha Róisín
I live here.
Ev'Yan Whitney
You're in LA? Why did I get you're in Brooklyn!
Fariha Róisín
Because I moved in September. So I've been here since September.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh my god. Let's get together! That's so cool. This whole time I thought you were in Brooklyn. Okay, this is exciting! Then we can we can meet up in person sometime.
Fariha Róisín
I would love that. Yes, more soon. Take care of yourself. Thank you so much.
. . .
Ev'Yan Whitney
That conversation was so thought-provoking, and expansive. And what you didn't get a chance to hear because we stopped recording by then, was the excited realization that Fariha and I are neighbors, like we literally live walking distance from each other, which was such a pleasant surprise. It has been a great joy for me to get to know Fariha in the IRL space around our neighborhood. And it probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't for this little podcast, so shout out to Sensual Self for existing! But seriously though, I am so appreciative of Fariha's light, like the literal light she is shining to help us illuminate our path out of the deep, dark dissociative space that is white supremacist, patriarchal capitalism, at the intersections of wellness and liberation. So grateful to Fariha. Thank you so much. And y'all please check out Fariha's book Who Is Wellness For? It is part memoir, part journalistic investigation that explores the ways that wellness culture has become a luxury good, built on the wisdom of Black, brown and indigenous people, while simultaneously ignoring and excluding them. It is beautiful, and medicinal, and truly required reading for anyone who wants to be or is helping others be well, which I think is all of us, I hope it's all of us. Who Is Wellness For? releases on June 24. And you can get your copy wherever you find books. But I always suggest independent bookstores because they're the best, and they need us more now than ever.
I don't know about you. But this conversation with Fariha really inspired me to think deeper about my relationship with wellness, both personally and professionally as a facilitator, as a healer, as an educator and a teacher. I'm really thinking of all the ways I've unknowingly perpetuated the wellness industrial complex, because, you know, I've been sold the same glittery aesthetics as you have. And I don't want to judge myself too harshly for that, as I don't think you should judge yourself if you're experiencing the same realizations about the ways you've participated in and perpetuated wellness culture. But I do think it's our responsibility to look inward, and begin to orient ourselves to ways and practices we can engage in to be better, to be more mindful, and to go beyond the shiny surface of wellness. Like what does it look like to decolonize wellness? That is a question I'm going to be coming back to for a while thanks to this conversation with Fariha and reading her book.
Another question I want to be thinking about and I would love to offer to you is, what does it mean for you to be well? What does that look like that wellness look like in practice? What would that feel like in your body? Like what does it feel like to be well? I want us to think about every aspect of our lives with this. How we want to feel, the relationships we want to cultivate, the way we'd like to be spending our time and our energy, the closeness we'd like to nurture within our own bodies, the boundaries we might need to put into place to keep us well. But I also want us to think about the footprints we're leaving behind as we're all in this pursuit of wellness and feeling good. I want us to be thinking about the food we're eating, you know, like where that food is grown and raised. The workers who are packaging and delivering this food to us. I want us to be thinking about the clothes we wear, you know who made them? And were they made by people who are feeling well, too? I want us to be thinking about the people we come into contact with on a daily basis. Like are we leaving these people we're interacting with in better shape than when we found them? Are we seeing these people and their humanity from the houseless person on the street, to the people we share a home with. I also want us to be thinking about the ways we are actively helping our communities to be well. What actions are we taking to help folks around us feel and find the same ease, pleasure and wholeness we strive to find for ourselves. And throughout all of these explorations, I want us to think about the ways we could be doing better the ways we could be making different choices that are in alignment with our standard of wellness for ourselves, and/or the ways we could be supporting the folks who do this kind of work better than we can do.
Now, I know this is a lot, and you might not have clear answers to these questions or easy ways to take action. That's okay. The fact that we're even entertaining this and questioning it for ourselves is movement in the direction of dismantling the oppressive systems that have bewitched us into seeing ourselves as separate from each other. And I'll be doing this too. You know, I'll be asking myself these questions and letting you know how it goes. Until then, thank you for being willing to do this great work. And thank you for listening to Sensual Self.
As a reminder, I will be taking a break from the podcast for a few months to rest and lounge in the sun and luxuriate in the pleasures of my sensual body, as well as prepare for the new season. So in the meantime, feel free to revisit or discover previous Sensual Self episodes. We've got all kinds of conversations if you're new here with brilliant humans about pleasure, sexual identity, gender, embodiment, sensuality, of course. Each episode is incredible, if I may say so myself, including the ones before this podcast was named Sensual Self.
So have fun exploring and have a great summer. I'll be back very soon. Take care of yourself, take care of the people around you. And be well.
. . .
Sensual Self is created and hosted by me, Ev’Yan Whitney. It is edited by myself and Tribble. Music is by Melodiesinfonie from his song called ‘Just Healing.’
For show notes, transcripts, and resources for your sensuality, go to evyanwhitney.com/podcast. You can also follow the show on Instagram @sensual.self.
As for me, I’m on Instagram at @evyan.whitney, and you can check out evyanwhitney.com to find out more about me and my work.
Also check out my book Sensual Self: Prompts and Practices For Getting in Touch With Your Body. You can find that wherever you find books.
Thanks so much for being here and I’ll see you in the next one.