Episode 71: A Consensual Relationship with Your Body (with Jonathan Mead)
Are you in a consensual relationship with your body? In this one, Ev'Yan speaks with Jonathan Mead, a body relationship and movement coach (and also Ev'Yan's partner) about what it means to be in a trusting, respectful relationship with your body. They discuss how fitness culture has helped create toxicity between ourselves and our body's messages, what it looks like to be kind to our nervous systems, and how we can start mending a relationship with our bodies that can help us access more ease, safety, and softness within ourselves.
The full transcript of this episode is below.
Links/mentions:
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Jonathan Mead is a thought leader in the field of movement and embodied potential. He helps people go from being stiff, and stuck, dealing with chronic tension and pain to waking up in bodies that are strong, capable, and confident. He's the creator of the Embodied Breakthrough Method, the most effective way to restore your body’s foundations and reclaim your physical freedom. He's been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, Huffington Post, GMB Fitness, and many other leading publications. Find Jonathan on Instagram and learn more about his work on his website.
Trust + Flow: an embodied workshop with Ev’Yan and Jonathan
Ev'Yan and Jonathan are teaching a virtual workshop together where you’ll be able to explore in real-time what it means to trust your body and flow with your sensual self.
You’ll explore components of body consent with movement, breathwork, and gentle curiosity to connect to your the messages and pleasure of your body.
What you’ll receive:
Breathwork and meditation to connect you to your sensuality
Guided movements to help you explore safety and trust in your body
AMA with Ev’Yan and Jonathan
Community sharing and support
Happening on November 13th @ 11:00 AM Pacific / 2:00 PM Eastern
Episode Transcription:
Hey, welcome to Sensual Self. I'm Ev'Yan Whitney and this is a space for you to slow down, tune in, heal and feel the sensations and pleasures of your sensual body. Thank you for being here.
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Hey, friends, welcome to another episode of Sensual Self. How y'all doin? be doing okay. I'm doing pretty good. I just got back from a nourishing and expansive trip to Petaluma, California, where I was amongst cows and trees and open skies, doing some somatic training and practicing. I haven't talked about this much, because I'm still in deep process about what all of this is meaning for me. But I'm really excited. I'm really excited about what's emerging through this deep study and certification that I'm doing right now. I'm really excited to be taking steps to hone the skills of embodiment, which is something that I've talked about so much on the show. And I'm also really looking forward to deepening my practice around somatics. So that maybe I can get back into working with people privately again, which is something that I used to do a lot. But I haven't done in a long time, and I've been really missing it. So that's what's been going on over here over these last couple of weeks. I hope that you've been feeling well and good in your body since we last spoke.
So as we get into this episode, I just want to mention, I've been really liking posing a question at the top of each episode to get us thinking about and feeling into our own bodies before we begin to explore the upcoming conversation. I don't know if this is something that I'll do every time. But it's been feeling nice to start there. So I'm just gonna go with it.
And so today, I want to ask you before we begin, do you have a consensual relationship with your body? Do you listen to and oblige the messages your body is telling you daily? To rest, slow down, to say yes, to not do the thing? Or do you tend to override your body, forcing it to do and be and experience things that it doesn't want to do? And with this, I'm not talking about the annoying things most of us absolutely have to do with our bodies like paying bills or going to work or other forms of adulting that are just a drag. I'm talking about the moments where your body is giving you a clear message to back off from an intense stretch or to go to the bathroom because you've been holding your pee for too long. Or to sit with and acknowledge the grief that is built up in your chest and your throat. In those moments when your body is speaking to you. Do you listen to it? Do you honor the needs of your body? Do you practice being in consent with your body? Now, I know the word consent is a word that we strongly associate with the ways we're in relationship with sex. But consent also extends to the ways we're in relationship with ourselves and the functions and complexities of our physical and emotional bodies.
Body consent is about nurturing a connection with ourselves, where we heed the messages of our body, however inconvenient and foster a sense that the voice of our body can be trusted. More than anything, body consent is about respecting your body's boundaries — its yeses and its nos. Being in a consensual relationship with our bodies is a foundational piece and not just listening to our bodies, but understanding what feels pleasurable to us, what feels like an enthusiastic yes to us. And to get there, we have to feel ourselves, we have to feel our bodies. We can't be in relationship with our bodies, consensually or otherwise, if we're not in our bodies. OK, how many times am I gonna say bodies in this episode, y'all? [laughs] I'm making a point, though, I hope you're following along.
And look, I get it—back on the topic of being in your body—I get it, being in our bodies can be hard. Listening to our bodies can be hard, especially if we've made a practice of dissociation, if things like trauma or societal pressures have kept us in a state of dissociation as our baseline. But in order to feel good, in order to explore the delicious nuances of our sensual selves, we have to forge a healthy, responsive and kind relationship with ourselves—one that takes the needs, wants and desires of our bodies seriously. Even if we've been told to push past pain, or tension, or to override our emotions, there's literally no other way around it. And all of that is what we will be exploring in our conversation today.
Today, I am speaking with my partner, my lover, my husband, and my dear friend, Jonathan Mead, about the practice of body consent. Jonathan, if you didn't know, beyond just being my husband, is a movement and body relationship coach who helps people who are stuck in patterns of pain and tension, reclaim trust and freedom in their bodies, so that they can dance, move, climb, run, even pick up their kids without fear. Not only does his work help people have less aches and pains in their bodies, they also end up feeling more grounded in themselves, better able to take up space and feel at ease with how they move in the world. The work that he does is so powerful, y'all. And you might know Jonathan, because he has been on this podcast many times to speak about our relationship and our sex life, but never as an incredible human doing this amazing work in the world that he does. So I'm very thrilled to highlight him to introduce you to him again. And have you all get to know what he does, which I have personally been so inspired by.
We do talk a little bit about our relationship in the beginning. We give you all a little update about what's transpired since we lived apart for a year. And for those of you who are not familiar with that whole story, you can check out episodes 48 and 49 to hear all about our LAT living apart together relationship. So we talked about that. But we mostly spend our time talking about his work about the toxicity of fitness culture, about being kind to our nervous systems, and how we can start mending a relationship with our bodies that can help us access more softness with ourselves. And yeah, this conversation was really lovely. I love listening to Jonathan speak about his work. And I hope you do too. So I'll leave you to listening to this episode. And then I'll come right back with a practice to help us explore what being in a consensual relationship with our bodies looks like. Oh, and if you think you'd be interested in coming to a workshop that I'll be co-teaching about being in your body and sensuality and pleasure, stick around till the end for more information. I've got a little something for you. Okay, enjoy!
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My love. Welcome back to Sensual Self.
Jonathan Mead
Hello, it's good to be here again.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I am so happy to have you back again. Before we were recording, I mentioned to you that you were the most repeated guest I've ever had on the show. And I think it's because you have a lot of privilege being my partner. But I'm so happy that you're here.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, it's an honor. It's an honor to be your partner. It's an honor to be the most repeated guest stuff on Sensual Self. So, yeah, definitely excited to be here excited for the conversation that we're gonna dive into.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. This conversation is gonna be a little different. I typically in the past, you have come on to talk about our sex life or our relationship. And maybe we could talk a little bit about that at some point just to give folks an update, because I know y'all are nosy. But today, I actually wanted to highlight you, and the incredible, brilliant, important work that you do as a movement coach and a space holder for people who are wanting to connect more to their bodies. I think it's important for me to say, like, before we get started on this conversation that, and I think I might have said this before, either to you and or on the show, but you have been one of the biggest influences for me in this realm of exploring somatics, embodiment, pleasure, and really healing the relationship that I have with my own senses and my sensuality. And one of the reasons why I'm so deep into this work, and really in this space that I'm in right now around diving deeper into somatics, and embodiment and what it means to feel the aliveness of my own body is because I feel that you are a walking representation of what it means to honor your body, to listen to your body, and to take care of it in ways that I feel our culture has discouraged us from doing. So I just wanted to say thank you for the light that you shine, not only just to the folks that you work with, but the way that you've influenced me to get into my own personal journey of connecting to my body and connecting to pleasure, both personally and professionally. Yeah, thank you, I love you.
Jonathan Mead
Thank you, baby, it's, of course, an honor and a privilege to get to share my passions, my journey with you. And yeah, it's been a blessing and a privilege to see you shift and grow more in, in tune with your own body and, and dismantle, unlearn all of the, you know, toxic messages that you've been given about your body, like so many of us have. And to see what happens when you are more fully in tune with yourself, you know, the deepest level, and to see how that impacts our relationship, impacts the other relationships that you have. But also just to get to see you feeling more at home, and at ease in your body. And, you know, that's just one of the sweetest things for me to get to witness in anyone that I, you know, I get to work with, but especially you because of the special place you have him in my life. Yeah, it's, it's really when I think about it, that's really what's at the core of my work. And it's become over time, more and more at the core of my work. At first it was more like about, you know, unlocking capability and skill and strength in the body. And those things are still a part of my work for sure. But I've realized over time, like, the most important thing that I can help other people with and that I try to help other people with is, is this feeling at home in your body. Yeah. And feeling like your body can be your home, which, you know, I know, for you. And for so many of us, like that hasn't been the case. And that's a hard thing. That's a hard thing because, you know, we are embodied creatures and to not be able to feel like you can be okay in your own body. That really rough.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, our relationship is really special because you have really watched me over the course of almost 16 years change, and grow and heal and backstep and start the cycle all over again. And, yeah, I think that because of the close and deep relationship that we have, I imagine that this area of embodiment that we're talking about, you've witnessed a lot in me, as I've witnessed a lot in you, and the ways that you're able to occupy not just your physical body, but your emotional body, and your sensual body and your pleasure body. So yeah, I'm just I'm sitting here thinking about, like, who we are, as we're coming to this conversation with each other, like, the history that has taken place in order for us to have this depth of intimacy and communication with each other. And I'm just feeling really grateful, really, really grateful.
Jonathan Mead
I feel so grateful to because you know, how, when you're doing healing work, and you're doing deep, you know, work on yourself trying to unlearn, you know, really harmful core beliefs, or trying to heal old wounds from childhood or, you know, from, you know, more so about the body, like, you know, a lot of messages we get about trying to look a certain way or perform a certain way from, you know, just, you know, culture at large, but also, you know, a lot of my work is fitness, and unpacking, unlearning things from fitness culture. And when you're doing that, it can feel sometimes like a mess, it can feel like things get a lot worse. You know, I know, that was certainly the case for me, like starting to really go deep into some of these, these layers of stories that I've held in my body are in ways of being that I have held in my body. But once you really go through like that, I don't know, darkness, dark night of the soul, or whatever you want to call it, it, it can get better and through doing that stuff, you can start to create more space in your body in your nervous system to have more pleasure, to feel more at ease to feel more grounded, resourced, all of those things. And as you were bringing that up of just like, you know, the history of our relationship and where we are now, it just made me feel really appreciative of kind of both of our past selves, I guess, for having the courage and the willingness to do this work. Because it's not easy. It can be scary. It can be hard. But I'm, I'm really grateful to those versions of ourselves that chose to embrace the journey. And it feels good. I mean, it's not like we're done or were you know, it's all over. I don't know when that ever happens. But I can feel like we're in a different place now, you know, than before. And that feels really good.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. Well, before we jump into your brilliance, I think it would be kind of fun to just do a brief relationship check in because the last time you were on my podcast, we were living apart. And we were exploring what it looked like for us to intentionally separate so that we can create more closeness with ourselves and with each other. So things have changed. And I thought maybe we should talk a little bit about where we're at now, how we're feeling, what we're up to.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah,
Ev'Yan Whitney
yeah.
Jonathan Mead
Let's do it. Yeah, a lot has changed since we had that year experiment. That was a crazy, potent time for so many reasons. Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know where you want to start with that. But let's Yeah, let's talk about it.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Well, I mean, I guess I just want to say like, spoiler alert, we are back to living together. We started living together in 2021. Is that right?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, we're back together. We're in Los Angeles now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. Yeah. You know, something that people asked me. I've gotten interviewed about this and I think some people in the past have been kind of shocked that we're no longer living apart. But maybe they expected that this was going to be a long term decision. And for me, I really loved the time that I had when I was alone. I really loved figuring out who I was and thriving and shifting in new ways. And then it got to a point where I was like, I really love who I am when I'm with you. And I wanted to, I wanted to be with you, I just it there was a certain period of living apart where I was like, Okay, I feel complete with this. Like, I feel like I got everything that I needed from it, I feel that I've learned everything that I've wanted to learn. I mean, of course, there was a, an impetus for us to get back together, because, you know, the world was seemingly falling apart. But I feel like even before then, we were having conversations, or we were feeling into this, this chapter, wrapping up. And I- Yeah, as as, as much as I'm grateful for that time that we both had apart. I'm very, very happy to be living back with you again, and to have a different way of operating in our relationship, because of that time that we spent apart together.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, yeah, me too. And I will say, too, you know, from the very beginning, we it's interesting that you have that kind of response from people when you talk about us being back together. Because in the beginning, I mean, no one knows what was going on in our relationship. But in the beginning, it was like, we chose to do it from a place of self discovery, and being able to focus on ourselves of who we are outside of our relationship, because I mean, 15 I guess it wasn't 15 years yet, but I don't know, 14 years or whatever, it was a long time to be with some person, we got together really young. So I think that was- you were the one that was driving it. But I was I was on board with it, too. And from the start, we never had any like fixed, real fixed plans about how long it would be. We said like, oh, maybe six months, and then we'll check in. I remember us checking in when it got to about six months. And we're like, we could both, you know, benefit from doing this longer. I was learning a ton about myself. I was getting closer to who I am and realizing who I wanted to be. And, yeah, I think we decided like, oh, yeah, well, let's do this a little bit longer than we thought maybe we'd do it for a year. But I remember as we were getting to the end of that year, we were both feeling like, Okay, this was cool. But we miss, you know, being in the same space as each other, snuggling, like that intimacy that you only get from being, you know, in close proximity. And, yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I don't want to spend the next however long we have with this episode talking about us. I specifically wanted to highlight you and the work that you're doing because I find it to be radical, I find it to be important. I learn something from you every single day. And I thought it would be really wonderful to bring you on to give these dear listeners some perspectives about their bodies and some practices that they can take with them to soften and bring more connection to the home that is their bodies. And yeah, before before we dive in, I wanted to just like ask that you formally introduce yourself as you know who you are and what you do.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I'm trying to think if, if I have done that, I'm not sure.
Ev'Yan Whitney
But I don't think you have I think this will be the first time because every time you've come on the podcast, you've been like my husband so like, yeah.
Jonathan Mead
I'm more than everyone's husband. But I'm happy to I'm happy to play that role, you know. So, hello, I'm Jonathan. I am a movement coach, and really, at a deeper level, a body relationship coach. And I realized that what I saw and of going through my own healing journey with my own body, you know, recovering from really beating up my body a lot, never taking the time to heal from injuries, overriding my body's energy levels, kind of holding, you know, shame, from different things that I learned about who I'm supposed to be from culture at large, like, as a man or as a, you know, a good person, all these, all these different layers were kind of shaping my experience in my body, and it wasn't, it wasn't good. And I tried to solve that challenge from just a kind of, I guess you could say muscles and joints level, you know. What I mean by that is like, if I could just, I don't know, do the right stretches, or, you know, strength exercise or something, then I could feel better in my body, then I could reclaim freedom in my body. And what I realized is that, that's just another manifestation of our culture being so fragmented, yeah, and how we like to compartmentalize things. And that works for us in certain ways, I think to help us, you know, communicate and understand things and study things. But when it comes to the body, like our bodies are multi-dimensional, our bodies are— our beliefs that we have about our bodies, our stories that we're carrying about ourselves. And it is our posture as well, it is, you know, the range of motion that we have in our hips, and our ankles, and all these things come together to form and inform our experience in our body. So somewhere along the way through, you know, kind of like just hitting my head against the wall, not figuring out how I could feel better in my body, and also wanting to help, you know, my clients create deeper levels of change, I realized that what was really at the foundation that I needed, and I needed to incorporate into my coaching is really fundamentally healing the relationship that you have to your body. Yeah. But that's the journey that I've had to go on is realizing like all this stuff is not working for me, and then realizing like, oh, actually, I'm not the one that's broken, it's that our model of how we think fitness and health and all these things are supposed to be is very limited and doesn't work for so many people. And what I see that's really unfortunate is oftentimes people blame themselves, rather than, and there's a certain element, of course of personal responsibility and everything, but a lot of it is actually like just broken systems, broken paradigms. And so that's really, at the core of, of my work is helping people kind of understand that, unpack that, take on a different paradigm. And then of course, you know, great practices and rituals and things to help them heal their bodies.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, what was coming up for me as I was listening to you speak and I've thought about this before, about how it seems as though the only system or structure that we have for connecting to our bodies in a physical movement type of way is through fitness, it's through going to the gym, it's through exercising, and, and I know that that's just one aspect of coming into your body of connecting to your body. And also how like, fitness culture is pretty unhealthy in a lot of ways. And I wonder if you could speak to that?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, absolutely. Fitness culture is really often at its core about performance. Yeah. And it's about really kind of telling your body what to do the way the way fitness culture is set up, is about you know, like, Okay, if I can run this far or you know, lift this amount of weight, then I've achieved something right then I can feel good about myself. And fitness as we know, it now actually sprang out of training for sports. Like the, okay, here's, here's the kind of one of the core problems there's there's a few core problems but one of them is that you know, we evolved as humans, right? I try to take this anthropological lens in my work as much as I can, we evolved as humans to, to move our bodies to live right? To like, pick fruit off of a tree and go walk to the stream to get water and squat down, and then, you know, pick up and carry our children and, and, and do these basic things just to live, but we've, you know, outsourced a lot of movement from our lives, right. And our modern culture. And that's had some benefits for us. But we're, we're not, we're no longer aligned with what our natural, you know, biology in our tissues expects us to be doing on a regular basis. So it would be good for us, we can't go back to living as hunter gatherers, right? That's not realistic, it would be better at least if we simulated or tried to simulate what we might do, you know, as best as we can, in our modern lives, to move in a functional, you know, primal natural way. But instead, because we don't have a culture that thinks holistically, or that really thinks from a big picture, instead, what we got was, okay, we know that your body needs some amount of movement, and, you know, self care, I wouldn't even really call it self care, but your body needs some amount of exercise, right? So let's just do this sport related thing to help you feel, you know, get something out of it.
The problem is, so many people have, you know, not only is not aligned with your biology, but like what happens if you have, you know, history of injuries, what happens if you've been sitting for years, you know, at a desk job, or just you went through school, and you sat for 8, 10 hours a day, right, or you wore shoes that kept your feet from being able to function the way feet are supposed to, for decades, right? You have these underlying, you know, weaknesses or lack of mobility in certain areas. And then you try to take that to a gym, right, or a fitness routine that is, was never designed to do what we're supposed to do, you know, the way we evolved to move and live as humans, then, of course, when we, you know, try to go through hit routines, or we pile weight on top of a compromised foundation, of course, things are gonna falter, right? Of course, we're going to have injuries or nagging pains and aches. And what I see is people come to me, and they're like, I don't know why this didn't work for me. Maybe I'm just messed up, maybe I'm just broken. And that it's not that you're broken, like your body is capable of so much healing, it's capable of so much adaptation. But it's capable of at app adapting in a in a way that helps you or, or maybe your body is always trying to help you. But if you're doing things like you're sitting too much or not moving enough, then your body's trying to adapt to help you with that, right. But that doesn't work long term. Right? At some point, you need to move in a different way. So anyway, my point is, of course, that if you try to take your body that maybe has you know, these limiting patterns, we're not even talking about emotional stuff, either too at this point, like, you can have holding patterns in the way you hold, you know, try to round your shoulders to hide your heart from the world, you can have your pelvis kind of lean back habitually, because maybe you're trying to protect that private, intimate, you know, vulnerable area, as well. Right? All these things are, are, are influencing and interacting, you're with your body. And, of course, if you take it to a gym and just try to pile up, you know, weight on top of it, things aren't gonna go very well. So that's, that's a part of it. And what I try to help people with is like, kind of learning that a little bit and then figuring out different things that you can do that are that are going to be more helpful.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Hmm. Yeah, what I've seen you do in your work, is you really help people mend a relationship with their body, not just like, what their body is able to do, but how they're able to listen to their body and be in right relationship with their body. And something that's come up for us as we were talking about creating a conversation together is this concept of body consent. And I'm thinking about that, in contrast to what you were talking about earlier about how fitness culture is you essentially telling your body what to do, and overriding your body's pain signals. Like, the whole reason why we have that phrase 'pain is weakness leaving the body', I feel like that came through fitness culture. And I'm really interested in what it looks like to not just identify these patterns of overriding the body, not just identifying these patterns of, I'm only in physical relationship with my body when I'm trying to force it to do something, a movement, a stretch, a weightlifting, that it doesn't really want to do or whatever. But I'm also interested in like, what it means to formulate a relationship with your body that is consensual, and beginning to repattern these, I guess, habits of overriding the body or trying to force the body to do something that it's not that it doesn't want to do-
Or it's just not ready for it that time.
Right.
Jonathan Mead
It's not the wrong thing ever. But it may be it's not ready for it right now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Right. Right. So I wondered if you could just define what body consent is like, what what does that mean to you?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, this is one of my favorite things to talk about, because I think it really helps clarify what's going on, for most of us in our bodies. So most of us without realizing it, are- because we've been trained to and it's become, it's normalized, right- We're overriding our bodies all the time. Right? Our culture is a very mind oriented culture, we value the mind a lot. And that helps us in some ways, but it also really limits us in other ways. Because we made a hierarchy out of it. It's not that the mind is bad, but we, we've made it to be that the mind is better. And the body is, is like less than it's at a lower level. it's of the flesh, it's of the Earth, you know, there's of course, a religious, you know, element to that probably a puritanical element to that, that we could, I'm sure trace back to like, somewhere in, you know, fucking Europe. You know, at some point, that's where it seems all the bad shit started happening. Anyway, right, because of that we have this hierarchy, right, and that we, whether we realize it or not, so many of us are living from this kind of mind, dominant perspective and a top down perspective.
So what I mean by that is the mind is, is kind of telling the body what to do, and we have this underlying relationship, that the body is an inconvenience, or that the body is just there to kind of lug the mind around. Yeah, that's the way I lived for a good solid chunk of my life, without even realizing it, to be honest with you. And I would get mad at my body, I would, you know, for not behaving the way I thought I was supposed to, or for or for having pains or tension or whatever. And the reality is, like, it wasn't my body's fault. It wasn't my body's fault. It was just the way I was taught, I wasn't taught to listen to those signals as information, right. So one of the things that I think is really helpful is to start thinking about, you know, the body, as you know, giving us these signals, whether it's pain, whether it's tension, whether it's kind of tiredness, or, you know, sometimes it's antsy-ness, or whatever, all of these signals are our, our information, right? There information that if we know how to understand our bodies, language, they really help us and inform us to be able to know how to nourish our bodies, take care of our bodies, and if we do that, we can most likely feel a lot better. Right? Because our body and us are on the same team. Yeah. And the signals aren't so different than the signal of like, I'm thirsty. Yeah, I'm hungry. Most of us know what those signals are. But we, we were never taught, you know, we don't have the language for understanding what the signals of our body are and how to respond to those. So what happens is because, you know, we might miss those signals when they're quieter, our body will turn up this volume. It'll make the pain louder. It'll make the tension louder, the fatigue louder, till we have to listen. Right? Till your body's like, “Bitch, you're going down. Like I'm just putting you on the floor right now” like, yeah, and unfortunately, that's, that's what happened to so many people, I see it all the time.
And it's, it's unfortunate because we live in a culture that kind of reinforces that. So what I'm trying to develop in my coaching approach, working individually with people and in groups with people is to understand what it means to have a consensual relationship with your body. Right? To not see your body's signals as inconveniences. But to be in a conversation with your body, so that you can shift from doing things to your body, overriding your body, to starting to partner with your body. And thanking it for the message is that it's that it's giving you an at the foundation of that is learning how to- we can talk about this a little bit more, but it's, it's one of the big missing pieces I see from so many approaches to movement and fitness is really understanding how to be in relationship with your nervous system.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's really helpful to hear, like, what it means to like what it looks like to to listen to the body. And like, I'm also feeling like, there might be some people listening who's like, I don't, I don't even know if my body is giving me messages. Like, I don't know, if I'm overriding my body, because I'm so disconnected, that like the basic needs, wants, desires and attention that my body is trying to give me, I don't feel like I'm hearing it. So like, could you give some examples of what overriding your body looks like? Like some things that we're doing? Maybe even some habits that we are participating in, that create that disconnect? Or that that feeling of overriding our bodies?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you brought up a good point, a lot of us are really disconnected from our bodies, and, you know, disassociation from our bodies can be a coping mechanism, right, for trauma for dealing with things that are overwhelming. So I don't think that disassociating is bad, I think it's actually it's a tool that we have, it can be actually really helpful. Like, if you're getting eaten by a tiger, like you want to, you want to go someplace else. You know what I mean? Like that is real helpful. If that's, you know, God forbid, right, that ever happened. So, you know, our body, well, our brains don't understand the difference between being eaten by a tiger in dealing with some other kind of threat, right? So it can develop that response habitually. And then if we get kind of stuck in that, that's our mode of dealing with things, then that's where it can be challenging, right? Because we're, we're used to going somewhere else all the time. And then we can also reinforce that with things like, you know, just scrolling mindlessly on our phones, you know, sitting for long periods, like not really being very much in tune with, you know, how your body's feeling needing to move, to get up. Right, a lot of work environments really reinforce I think some places are getting better, but so many work environments reinforce, you know, disconnecting and checking out from your body because it's like an interruption to productivity. Right.
So, I think what can be helpful with that is starting to think about like, how, how you want to be, intentionally, in relationship with your body, beyond the, the way that you've been trained and enculturated and taught to be in relationship with your body. And I think giving yourself some grace is important. Like that you didn't get taught how to do this, you didn't get taught how to take care of yourself. How to do basic maintenance on your body, you know, and to accept that it's going to take time, right. I think that's one of the biggest things that I see. And I I have to, you know, really often help people with this because we're so used to the mind, wanting to control everything We expect things to happen really fast. The mind is really fast, right? Like, we can think about something faster than we can do something. Yeah. So part of it, I think is just is accepting that the body has its own timeline. And being gentle with yourself as you wake your body up. And as you start to get to know, you know, you might even just like it sounds silly, but you might just like, actually, like, touch different areas of your body. You know, squeeze your arms, your forearms, your upper arms, your shoulders, and just like say hello to your body. Say hello to yourself, like, Oh, yeah. Body. That can be one way to start.
Ev'Yan Whitney
What comes up? Or like, what do you? What do you tell folks that you work with who are like, okay, all of this is sounding really good. But being in my body is hard. Because I have chronic pain, or because I don't like my body. I don't like the way my body looks, or I've received a lot of messages that my body isn't a good body. Like, I'm really curious about, you know, I talk about the body so much on this podcast in my work. I mean, you can't have amazing sex without fully being in your body, there's just no way to do that you can't experience the full depth of your pleasure without fully being in your body. And I am realizing that it's very easy for me to say those words and, you know, to create conversations about this stuff. But the reality is that there are a lot of people who are just like, Yeah, that sounds great for you. But like, it is very difficult for me to even be in my body. And I understand that it's important. I understand the benefits of it. But dissociating has gotten me this far. It's it's allowed me to do the things that I need to get done. Like, how, how do you work with people? Or what what advice or guidance do you give people who are like, being in my body is hard, and I don't know how to forge that relationship from this place because of it.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. Yeah, I think being able to find ways to be in your body, that feel good to you, that feel nourishing, and that feel grounding to you. Is, is really important. Right. And I think that when we think about rebuilding our relationship with our body, transforming our body, that can feel like a lot, that can feel really overwhelming, especially if you've spent decades, or maybe your entire life, disconnecting from your body. Yeah. So that's why I start with nervous system care, and nervous system practices. Practices that are very gentle, that help you reconnect with feeling good in your body, feeling at home in your body, and helps you not only feel more in your body, but feel like connected to the world around you. Yeah, that helps you feel connected to the support that you have all around you at any given time. Right. So learning how to be able to like, rest into, like, so many of us are holding ourselves up all the time, right? We're like, we're not connected to our feet, we're not connected to our pelvis, we're not connected to our core. Right? So we're trying to kind of like, hunch shoulders up and clench our jaw because we don't feel supported by our own body, but also the earth, right? So learning, you know, even just like how to for a, maybe it's for a breath. Yeah, sink into reset, or surrender and receive that support can be a really great place to start. And I just want to say like, I empathize with people that are struggling with that because I've been there. I still struggle with certain things with my body. And it's, it's okay, like, it's okay to have those struggles. I just want to say that because I think that part of what we can do is we can make things harder for ourselves by, we make what we're experiencing wrong. Or we think that we shouldn't be experiencing what we're experiencing. So part of it too, can just be like, yeah, oh, I'm here, this is where I am. And that can create some relief. I think, too.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I love that you're talking about practices that are really, really small, because I know for me when I think about, and when I thought about creating more connection to my body, like my mind goes to the maximum way to do that, like an hour long yoga session where I am breathing intentionally and doing all of these intense stretches. And what you're offering here is like, allowing people to find their way back to their body in the most doable, feasible, but powerful ways. You know, like, I think we, we underestimate the power of giving our bodies intentional touch, and like actually feeling into what we're feeling as we were touching ourselves. Or we like, underestimate the power of a breath, you know, and how that can help us tap into our bodies. And I think that's even a remnant of, of fitness culture, too. It's like, you gotta go big, you gotta go fast and strong. And--
Jonathan Mead
It's all about progression to it's like, it's never about, like, doing things that are just simple to nourish yourself. Like, it's about getting somewhere else, you know, always supposed to be getting to the next level. Like, okay, what if your body wants to be at the level it is for a while? Is that okay? Maybe that's okay.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really about trusting that right? Like trusting, trusting your body, like, I don't know, there have been moments where I'll pull something in my back, which has been happening a lot lately, and my love, you've been helping me to, to work that out. I'm so appreciative of that. But in these instances, where I pull something in my back, my instinct is to do these big stretches. And like, even though I'm feeling that pain in my back, it's like, well, I gotta work it out. And, but my body is actually saying, No, I need you to just like, rest, and to be still, and to really the sort of baby, the movements of this day, or for how long it takes. And sometimes I've been frustrated, because I'm like, no body, like, I don't want to rest I have things to do, like, I don't want to, I don't want to move slow. I don't want to not, you know, try to massage this kink out of my back, like I got, I gotta I gotta move. And something that's been really beneficial for me is just like really listening to the voice of my body and seeing pain as an invitation to slow down or seeing tiredness in my body as a reason to rest. And I think nurturing, nurturing trust is one of the biggest products of that, you know, just trusting that, like, if my body says I need to rest, it needs to rest. And I, I don't have to, I don't have to have a whole argument about it. Like I can trust the wisdom and the voice of my body.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I think what a, what a gift to give to your body. Like your body is trying so hard all the time. I think we don't, we don't give our bodies enough credit. Right? We, we think about our bodies when they're hurting, or when they're, you know, there's something wrong with our bodies that we perceive. And think about like with your back, like how long your back was showing up for you and doing its best. And maybe there were certain things that you were doing ways you're holding yourself ways you're moving that you didn't know, like, were challenging, or, you know, taxing for your back and maybe it just like you weren't taught also to listen to those messages. Maybe it was giving you messages that whole time, but you didn't know like you didn't know how to listen to it. So like part of it, I think is acknowledging that and like you know giving yourself some grace giving your body some grace, and then learning how to over time, I think this is the goal, is like to listen sooner. I try to listen sooner to those messages your body is giving you and not see them as inconveniences but to welcome them as feedback. And I'm just thinking about like your, your back with it, you know, you when you pull something. It always suck some pull something. I used to do the same thing with my neck like I would sleep weird and tweak something that I would try to stretch it at the maximum like, and it always made it worse, right? We're not taught to see like, oh yeah, when your body like you have a pulled muscle or something, it's like a scared hurt little kid. You know, you want to come up to a scared hurt little kid and be like, Oh, I see your knee is messed up, so go run. Or maybe some of us were taught that. Right? But like, most good parents would see like, oh, that kid like, maybe if it's not that serious, it does need some reassurance. But if it is serious, like, yeah, you need to like slow down and take care of that you need some like nurturing, some mothering, you know, like energy toward it.
And I think that's the part of learning how to work with your nervous system to where you know how to, there's a critical point when you pull something, where if you know how to work with your nervous system, you can resource safety again, yeah, in those moments, and a lot of the time, maybe it doesn't go away completely. But you can severely-- not severely, but you can significantly impact the degree that it's going to be hurting or, you know, flaring up. So, I think that is that's something I bring up a lot like I've brought up a lot in this conversation. But I just think is, is so important. It's one of the languages that most of us were never taught, but it has the impact to not only change your relationship with your body, but your relationship with others, like, you know, back to the body consent thing, if you're really in tune with your body, your body can tell you whether something like a choice you want to make in your life, something you want to do, person you want to hang out with, like your body can tell you whether it's a yes or not. If you're in touch with yourself like so I just want to encourage people that like maybe they have a strife ridden relationship with their body, I get it, like, but if you do the work to, you know, learn to be kind to your body to learn to slowly inhabit your body. It doesn't have to be all at once. Like, there's so much waiting for you. You know, so many things to look forward to on the other side of that. Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
You've offered so many beautiful gems and nuggets of wisdom and reclamation in this conversation. And, you know, I could talk to you all day. And I actually do because we live together now. But as we as we bring this conversation to a close, I just wonder if, if there's anything else that is on your heart, that you would like to offer us to keep us and hold us in our own bodies?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the invitation. And yes, I could talk about this stuff all day. It's something I'm super passionate about. Because I believe that feeling good in your body, whatever level that's at. Is is so important for individuals but also for the world. I think that people are kinder and just just better humans when they feel good in their bodies and they feel at home in their bodies. I also think that the more embodied you are and the more you feel like the harder it is to look away from injustice. The harder it is to be uncaring to other people, to be uncaring to yourself. So, while feeling can be a pain in the ass sometimes. Yeah, I just want to say that you know, it is so worth it, to walk down this path to take this journey. And you also you don't have to do it alone. You know whether that's finding support from community, from friends, you know, from a coach, like, the way I work with people. That support is out there, it may take a little bit more to look through, because there is so much stuff that is about, you know, kind of overriding your body, telling your body what to do. But there are there are other voices, there are other messages out there. And I just encourage you to find what, find what resonates with you, and, and tune in and listen to your body and how it feels. You know, when you read the description for a class, or, you know, when you're going through a class or a program or just a simple stretch, you know, tune in and notice. Maybe you're not good at it at first. And that's okay. Like, of course, you wouldn't be if you are used to disconnecting over writing. But over time, you will get better with it. And, and slowing down is really, really helpful with that. That's probably one of the most annoying things that my clients have to hear from me all the time is like, I'll be like, cool. You did that really good. Now do at half the speed of half of half of what you just did. Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Thank you, honey, thank you for, for holding the space for giving us permission to slow down and listen to our own bodies. The work you do is so important. And I've seen so many beautiful transformations from the folks you've worked with. Some have even found you through me, which is really cool that in the workshops we've done together, folks have really been attracted to the way that you teach regarding movement and embodiment. And I think that says something for sure.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, it's been an honor honestly, like to have just people from different backgrounds, different experiences that they've had with their body, come to me because I am a I'm a cis, white, you know, albeit, queer man. But, you know, it can be a little bit vulnerable for people to like, trust someone that looks like me, that carries the identities that I carry, to receive support. So I don't take that lightly. And I feel very honored, to be able to support the people that have come through you to help them re imagine to heal their relationships with their bodies. So yeah, I am just very, very grateful.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I'm grateful for you. Well, as we as we end, please tell us where people can find you, where they can support your work. And also like where people might be able to potentially work with you if that's something that they're into.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, yeah. So I'm not sure when this comes out, if I will have space available, but I'm always open to receiving messages, comments from people, I love to connect with anyone that is looking to looking to feel better in their bodies. So that's always inspiring to me. And if you want to check out my work, you want to check out some of the case studies of folks that I've worked with or some of the content that I published my podcast or different things like that maybe you're just wanting to learn more about what a different approach might look like that focuses on the foundations of movement, that focuses on healing your nervous system. You can check me out. I have a new website, which is pretty cool.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, you do. It's so beautiful too.
Jonathan Mead
Took me nine months to finish, but I did. So it's an embodiedmovement.co. you can check me out there I have a free workshop you can check out if that's really the best way to kind of learn more about what I do and the approach that I take.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on and giving us a taste of your brilliance.
Jonathan Mead
Thank you for inviting me once again.
. . .
Ev'Yan Whitney
Shout out to my man, the love of my life, Jonathan, for sharing himself with us and giving us a lot to think about when it comes to body consent and inhabiting our bodies. I know I gained a lot from this conversation. And I intend to look for ways I can deepen the respect and noticing I have with my own body. So thank you. Thank you, Jonathan. One thing that I regret not asking Jonathan during our chat was for some practices that can help us cultivate body consent, that can have us exploring the messages and requests our body is trying to alert us to in real time. So I asked Jonathan to share a practice with us so that we could begin to put body consent into motion. And here's what he gave us.
It is called breath as consent practice. And I'm just going to read the practice as he wrote it down to me.
A foundation of body consent is learning how to work with your nervous system, rather than trying to fight against or override it. There are several ways we can learn to do this. But one of the simplest is by learning to listen to the breath as feedback. When we use the breath as feedback, we can begin to discern what movements our bodies are a yes or no to. It can even help us make important choices about which projects to take on, what career choices to make, and what relationships we want to nurture. But for now, we'll start with movement, and use the breath to help us learn to honor our bodies boundaries. One of the beautiful things you'll find about this practice is by honoring your body's boundaries, you will build trust with your body. And either very quickly or over time, your body will start trusting you with bigger movements, more challenging movements, and more freedom of expression.
So to start this practice, we'll do a quick body scan. You can do this standing, seated or lying down, whatever is most comfortable for you. Tuning in to your face, relaxing the muscles around your eyes and jaw. Move your awareness to your neck and shoulders, allowing them to sink and soften. Direct your attention to your chest now, letting it melt and open. Allow your muscles to hang on your bones like a well worn coat. Now bring your attention to your breath. And let your breath become slow and soft. Like a warm summer breeze moving in and out of your belly. Feel your breath moving through your body, like a soothing tide and massaging and relaxing your internal organs. You might let your pelvis, your spine and your shoulders sway a little with the breath, almost as if they're being carried like driftwood on this ocean current.
From here, staying connected to your breath, come into either a seated or standing position if you're lying down and begin rounding and arching your spine slowly. It's best to start with a small range of motion and to go very slowly at first, as we talked about today, fitness culture and modern life teaches us to do things big and fast. And this pacing might be a bit uncomfortable. So feel free to pause at any time. But if that's feeling okay for you, just practice rounding your spine like you're wrapping your belly and chest around a barrel. Then arch and extend your spine like you're resting your back on a large supportive ball.
As you do this, observe your breath. Notice where you might be holding your breath or if your breathing becomes tight or shallow. This is a signal a yellow or perhaps red light, if you will, to either slow down and make the movements smaller or to resource more support. Perhaps feeling more into the support of the ground or the chair or to maybe connect more with the support of your deep layers of your core. If your breath is free, and even, you can imagine this as a green light. And if you want, you can explore making the movement a bit larger. Or you might explore some side bending or twisting. Try to tune in and see what your body wants to do, rather than trying to tell your body what to do with your mind.
While there are many more layers to developing body consent, and rebuilding trust with your body, hopefully this short practice gives you a window into what starting to partner with your body can feel like in action. And he ends the practice there. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jonathan, for taking the time to offer that practice to us. And you all should know that I've gone through this practice a few times myself. And it's really interesting to notice what my body is communicating to me through my breath. There were moments where I could feel myself trying to override those signals, to sort of push past the holding or tension that I was experiencing. And it was really cool to feel myself partnering with my body in real time, and allowing my breath to soften me to be with it where it was. So yes, a simple, but powerful practice that I encourage you all to try for yourself.
Before I go, I wanted to tell you about a virtual class, I'll be teaching with Jonathan, this Sunday, November 13. During this workshop, we'll be exploring some of the themes of this episode today. And leading folks and practices to help them restore trust in their bodies, so that they can access their pleasure and softness. We'll create a space for you to experience how to feel good and safe in your body, and we'll give you tools to help you stay connected to yourself as you move through this fast-paced, pressurized world.
This 90-minute workshop will be led by both of us. So Jonathan will teach one part and I'll teach the other. And together we'll be incorporating gentle breathwork organic movement, some Q&A and space for community sharing. I am so excited about this. This will be the first time in a minute that he and I will co-lead a class together. And I can't wait to be in practice with you and with him in real time. It's always so fun when I get to teach with Jonathan.
Again, this is happening this Sunday, November 13, at 11 am PST / 2 pm EST. To sign up, click the link in the show notes. And if you're not sure you can make it sign up anyway. We'll be recording the workshop and you're welcome to join us later at your own time and pace.
Okay, I really hope to see you this Sunday. It's going to be a lot of fun. And in the meantime, I'm wishing you lots of softness and gentle listening to your body.
. . .
Sensual Self is created and hosted by me, Ev’Yan Whitney. It is edited by myself and Tribble. Music is by Melodiesinfonie from his song called ‘Just Healing.’
For show notes, transcripts, and resources for your sensuality, go to evyanwhitney.com/podcast. You can also follow the show on Instagram @sensual.self.
As for me, I’m on Instagram at @evyan.whitney, and you can check out evyanwhitney.com to find out more about me and my work.
Also check out my book Sensual Self: Prompts and Practices For Getting in Touch With Your Body. You can find that wherever you find books.
Thanks so much for being here and I’ll see you in the next one.