Episode 60: “My Sensual Self is My Own”: A conversation with Ev’Yan Whitney
It’s finally here! Ev’Yan’s guided journal, Sensual Self, is out in stores today, and to celebrate, they get interviewed by their partner about their sensuality. Ev’Yan talks about her journey of sensual self-discovery, the mundane chores she transforms into sensual practices, and how to stays in union with herself. Also in this episode: Jonathan talks about his sensuality as a man, Ev’Yan’s intentions for your sensual self, and how you can catch Ev’Yan at some events in celebration of her book-birth.
“I’ve been taught that my sensuality is for somebody else—it’s something that somebody else gets to consume, enjoy, and savor. But my sensuality is just for me and my sensual self comes through in those moments when nobody is looking.” —Ev’Yan Whitney
The full transcript of this episode is below.
Also mentioned in this episode:
*If you’re not seeing Sensual Self at your favorite bookstore, contact them and tell them to stock it.
Transcription:
*Big thanks to Dame who is our sponsor for this episode. Use code EVYAN10 for 10% off your purchase!
The end of the year can be stressful. And one of the first things to go when I'm stressed is taking care of myself. It's so important to stay connected to things that help you feel well and good during this hectic season. And what helps me come back to myself is pleasure. Pleasure is self-care. And Dame, our sponsor for this episode wants you to get in touch with yourself.
Dame is leading a sexual wellness revolution with game-changing products and resources for your unique pleasure. Head over to dameproducts.com and use my code EVYAN10 for 10% off your first time purchase, and get in touch with yourself.
. . .
Hey, welcome to Sensual Self. I'm Ev'Yan Whitney. And this is a space for you to slow down, tune in, heal and feel the sensations and pleasures of your sensual body. Thank you for being here.
Hey, everybody. I hope y'all are doing well this week. Something really exciting is happening over here today.
Y'all. Today is the day. Today, my book baby, Sensual Self, has been born. No more preordering, no more waiting, you should be able to go to any bookstore and hold Sensual Self, my book, in your hands today. I am doing my best to not scream in your ears right now because, oh my gosh, it's here! My book is finally here! I've been waiting for this day to come since, gosh, September 2019, which is when I officially conceived this book. I've been thinking about it, praying about it, anticipating it for literal years. And oh my gosh, it's here. It's finally here.
As you can probably imagine, I'm going to be doing a lot of celebrating in the form of eating pastries and shaking my ass today. And if you'd like to celebrate with me, and if you happen to live in the Los Angeles area, I'm going to be doing an in-person sensuality workshop and book signing at Reparations Club tonight at 6:30. I'll be discussing my book Sensual Self and walking you through a couple of practices to help you get into your sensual body. And I would really, really love to see you there. I'll put a link in the show notes for you to RSVP. And I suggest snagging your ticket now as space is pretty limited. And I imagine the remaining spots will go really quickly. If you're not in the LA area, or you just can't make it to the in-person launch party, no worries. There's also a virtual version happening tonight as well. Again, I'll put a link in the show notes for how you can come through. Ah, I'm so excited.
I'll actually be doing a bunch of events all week long as a kind of book tour meets sensuality workshop series. You can head over to evyanwhitney.com/events for ticket information and come hear me speak about sensuality, and pleasure and real-time. I've got lots of tour dates coming up so there's something in there for everybody.
But the one event I am really, really excited to be a part of this week is a panel discussion happening this Sunday. It's called Reclaim Your Sensual Self and it's going to be a conversation between me and some of my favorite experts in the field of sensuality and sex education and mental health. And we're going to be talking about pleasure, trauma healing, and also about how you can claim your unique sensuality on your own terms. I'll be speaking with Jimanekia Eborn who is a sex educator and trauma expert, Shadeen Francis, who is a licensed therapist and sexual advocate, and also Brianne Patrice, who is a sensuality educator and an advocate as well. It's going to be so good, the conversation is going to be flames. And we're gonna have giveaways. I'm actually really, really excited about these giveaways because they are giveaways that I have designed for you. So there'll be giveaways, there's going to be good talks, and also a chance for you to ask us anything about your personal sensual journey.
Tickets for Reclaim Your Sensual Self panel are sliding scale between $5 and $15. And a portion of the ticket sales will go to The Embodiment Institute, which is a Black-led initiative that helps black folks connect to themselves sensually, and somatically. I love this organization, I have taken some classes with them. And I'm so excited to be able to give back to them as they have been profound and my own understanding of my body. So again, this event is happening this Sunday, December 12 at 11 am Pacific, it's happening on Zoom, you can RSVP by going to evyanwhitney.com/events, or you know, you can click the link in the show notes. I'll have everything in there.
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening this week. I mean, my book launch week, I knew was going to be pretty booked and busy. And I'm feeling really blessed and highly favored to be able to do these events with all of you. So come through, come celebrate with me. And I hope to see you there. Okay, you know what, there's so much going on, I could say so much more. But let's just go ahead and get into today's episode, shall we?
Today, I've got a conversation for you, between me and my partner, Jonathan, who turned the tables and interviewed me about how I embody and practice my sensuality. It was actually really cute. I had a totally different vision. For today's episode, I was going to do something solo and share with you some of the practices from my book, Sensual Self. But Jonathan really, really wanted to interview me, probably to make my life easier, as I'm doing a billion things right now. But also, because I think he wanted to create space for me to celebrate myself and this book I made for y'all. Which I really appreciate. Because as anyone who has written a book knows, it's really easy to let the small details of this massive project consume you so much that you can't see the forest for the trees. So I was really grateful that Jonathan offered me this space because it allowed me to zoom out of that and reflect on who I am as a sensual being. And why it is I want you to reclaim that within yourself as well.
I had no idea what questions he was going to ask me. He just told me to show up and go on this journey with him. So as you're listening, you will notice that I will not be in the host’s seat this time. Jonathan will be leading this conversation and offering his own perspectives on sensuality, which is something I'm really interested in right now. Like what men's sensuality is what it looks like to create space for them to be sensual and soft. Jonathan and I touch on that a little bit in this episode, but we're going to be diving deeper into that on another episode really, really soon. I'm just so curious about that. Anyway, if this is your first time hearing Jonathan on the podcast, I hope you enjoyed listening as much as I enjoyed being with him in this way, and having him celebrate the launch of my book, Sensual Self.
Okay, enjoy this conversation and I will see you in a little bit.
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Jonathan Mead
We're gonna do a little role reversal today. And if you're not familiar, I am Jonathan Mead. And I get to have the great pleasure of interviewing my wife and my partner about their book today. And I am really excited to dive in with you and maybe ask you some unexpected questions, maybe some questions you might not normally get asked. So thanks for letting me do this with you today, ma'am.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Thank you for having me. This is kind of weird. I have no idea what you're gonna ask me. But I'm down. I'm game. I'm excited.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, it is kind of weird, because it's like, I was like, oh, roll reversing. But it's like, I'm hosting you. But it's still on your podcast?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Mead
So it kind of doesn't make sense. But-
Ev'Yan Whitney
Let's just go with it.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, no, it's gonna be great. Well, we are here today to talk about a really important topic that is very near and dear to me, to my life. And I know it is to you as well, obviously enough that you wrote a whole book about it. So we're going to talk about sensuality. And we're going to talk about your journey to sensuality, what led you to create this book to create this work, why it's such an important part of your work. And I just want to start off because this felt like a really important part to me in your book, where you had people before they even get into it, and start with the prompts and the journal entries and all this good stuff, to set an intention for how they want to engage with this work. And I think that's one of the most important things that we often forget because we just want to dive in and we want to, like, you know, do everything right, right now and right away. So I'd be curious for you, like, what's your intention for our conversation today?
Ev'Yan Whitney
My intention for this conversation today is to drop into some joy and some pleasure around this book coming out. To really feel into just the miracle of this book being out, the fact that I wrote it, and to have a sense of celebration about that. Yeah, that's my intention.
Jonathan Mead
I love that. Yeah, I feel the same way. And I was just feeling into, you know, how, how big of a moment it is to launch a book to create a book. And, you know, there can be a lot of other stuff, other emotions, other feelings that come up around that. And I was just feeling like, oh, yeah, this is a moment that only happens once. It's never going to happen again. And-
Ev'Yan Whitney
Well, at least for this book.
Jonathan Mead
Right. For this book. Sure. You might write 10 other books, you know, who knows, but this book, in this way is never going to happen again. So I really feel that and, yeah, that that feels really real for me very alive for me to just like, drop in and appreciate this moment, and this opportunity that I get to talk to you about your work because I mean, I'm very close to you and your work, obviously, because we work from home together. We've been working on our businesses together for the last 10 plus years, which is crazy to think about, you know, we just celebrated our 15 year anniversary. And yeah, we did we have a lot of history, although even with that, like, I rarely get this time to actually connect with you in this way about it, because I'm so enmeshed in it, you know, so I am really appreciating that and excited about that. You know, I've known you for a long time and one of the first things that struck me meeting you, you know, which I mean, I guess before I met you in person I met you you know, quote-unquote, on MySpace. And your pictures, your pictures babe, like, are just different, you know?
Ev'Yan Whitney
On MySpace?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, they were just like not like everyone else's pictures. It was like the angles, the lighting your like expressions on them. And I could just feel that this was a different person, like a different human and you called me into my own, I guess you could say sensuality.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Hmm.
Jonathan Mead
Because of the way I think you express yourself. And that was one of the things that always really struck me about you is you've always been a very sensual person, a very earthy like person. But I would love to hear from you like, what has your journey been like with your relationship to your sensuality? But then also, I know, it always hasn't been easy for you to at certain times, even though that's your essence. Right? Like, that's the truth about yourself. It hasn't always been simple. So yeah, what is your relationship in like with sensuality? And what's your, I guess, part of your journey been like to reclaim your sensuality?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Hmm. Well, first, I want to just thank you for that reflection of, you know, going back in the day to the MySpace days, I mean, I remember those photos that I took, and I have an underst-, I know what you're talking about. But then there's also this part of me thinking back to when I took those photos and like, I was not in a space of what I thought was sensuality back then, you know what I mean? And that's, that's actually something that I've heard a lot, especially when I got started with my work. You know, being a sexuality doula, and a sex educator. I remember, like, people would come up to me at certain events that I'd be at, and they'd be like, your presence, your energy, your aura, there's something about you that is that just says sensuality and power and presence and like embodiment, and I always felt like cool, sis. I'm glad that you feel that, but I, I don't, I don't really know. So it's basically what I'm saying is that it's really interesting for me to hear you talk about that. Because, yeah, that's something that
Jonathan Mead
You didn't see yourself that way.
Ev'Yan Whitney
No, and I think I think there's some I don't know, I guess some there's some parts of me that doesn't really see myself that way, even today. I think because of how, how much, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in here in my brain. And yeah, it's just, it's really interesting for me to hear that feedback. And to know that that is an essence that comes through, even without me trying to draw it out. Even without me like trying to wear external things or say things that, that bring that out. Because I have, I have always felt in some degree, a connection with my body, and a connection with pleasure and my senses, my sensuality, but I didn't have the words for that. I felt that a lot when I was younger. I think a lot of us have had that experience where we're more so in our bodies, and we're more so uninhibited within our bodies. And we're very curious and exploratory about the things that our bodies can do and the things that make our bodies feel good and all of these things. So that I think that that has been a common thread. But it's always been something that I have felt has been within me and not something that radiates without me, you know what I mean? Like, it's always internal.
Yeah, it's always felt really personal, like something that folks can't see unless like, I am actually willing it out into being. And so yeah, this, this question of like, sort of the trajectory of my sensual self, I feel like it started when I was a kid to being like very open and fluid within my sensuality and fluid within my body and curious and playful. And then there was this period where there was just like, this harsh line of demarcation of like, don't do that, you know, like being in your body in a pleasurable way is the pathway to sin. It's a pathway to sin of yourself and also to have others sin within themselves. And I think that's where the connection between sensuality became sexualized. Before it was just I'm in, my body I'm exploring, I love my body, my body feels good. What is What can I do today to make my body feel this different sensation to be in presence with my body? It felt very clean and innocent and just playful and then coming up to a certain age it became sexualized, where my sensuality was not allowed to be explored by me and also it wasn't allowed to be received or explored by other people unless we were in the context of marriage. So I would say from the ages of like, maybe seven to 20, maybe around the time that I met you at 19, 20. Those were some years where I felt like my sensuality, was co-opted by the gaze of other folks' desires, as well as like, sort of commercialized. You know, like I think about this a lot with sensuality, how a lot of us grow up thinking that sensuality isn't an object, it's in the perfume that you wear, it's in the heels that you put on your feet
Jonathan Mead
You have to buy it.
Ev'Yan Whitney
In order to be sensual, you have to buy this thing. And so between the ages of 7 and 20, I would even— I think that's a little generous, I would say, between the ages of 7 and maybe 23, I was still within that mindset of my sensuality is not for me, it's for the gaze and the pleasure of somebody else. And it's not something like, in order for me to be sensual, I have to consume something I have to bring something in. I have to buy something.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's—there's so many layers to it of like, why our sensuality gets shut down. Like, you know, I think about that, in terms of the things that you brought up in terms of like, sensuality getting conflated with sexuality, right, then it's, you know, it's not okay to even just like feel simple pleasures, because that, that could be sexual or could be construed by someone else. And you can be making an invitation, right? And, and then, like you said, to the different pieces with how it's, it gets taken away from you, you know, it gets stripped away from you, and you get, you start to think that you're not whole within yourself, and then you have to get it somewhere outside of yourself. And like, Yeah, our culture really... It really strips us, I think of that autonomy. And that's one of the parts I love about this book is that it's, it's, and that's one of the things that I would say that I love the most about your work in general, and what has, I feel like struck people, in my view about the work that you do so much, is that you're never coming from the stance of like, Hey, I'm the expert, or hey, like, I'm going to teach you the things that you need to know, it's very much been about, like, hey, look, I'm like a human, I have fucking problems. I'm like, not like, I don't have, like, shit figured out. And I'm not trying to pretend that I do. Like, I'm really open about that. I'm on my own journey. And, like, come along with me. And I'm going to share with you some things that have been helpful for me, like, share with you things that have been helpful for the people I've worked with. And it's about reclaiming your autonomy, not just like, hey, now you have to be reliant on this method or this practice that you have to perform and do perfectly. Right.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Right.
Jonathan Mead
And I feel like that really comes through in this book. I was going back through it again, I've had the pleasure of getting the chance to, you know, see it multiple times. But it's a different experience, like, reading it again. I was reading it, you know, before, we're gonna record this podcast, and I was like, that was one of the biggest things that I feel like was really clear that I love so much. It's, it's an invitation to like, reclaim your own birthright of sensuality.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I think about that a lot. Actually, I'm thinking about that in this moment. As you know, we're talking about my journey toward sensuality, where it started, where it stopped and then like where it began again. And I think, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot with sensuality and that I do, the best I can to convey is that sensuality is not a one-time experience of feeling into your body. It's something that you come into, it's a practice that you cultivate, and when I'm thinking about myself as being like seven, I was fully in it. It wasn't like I didn't have to practice that because it was just a fundamental part of who I was. Like, I woke up in the morning, I had a body I felt very connected to that body. I had some traumatic experiences at that time, but not enough to dissociate me from my body. It was just like I was in harmony with my body in ways that down the line I wasn't and I think that's what makes- that's why we have to have sensuality as a practice. Because of the ways that we've been disintegrated from ourselves, it's like, it's almost as though we lose that connection to that birthright that you're speaking of, you know, something that is supposed to be so natural. And so simply accessed, it gets, it gets disconnected and sort of garbled by all of the stories and traumas and narratives and the things that are thrown upon us on a day-to-day basis. You know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, so, God, it's so true. And it's, like, makes me sad, because, ideally, we would just stay connected to that, and we wouldn't even need a word for, we wouldn't even a word for it, or like, have to create a practice, I think about that. And, you know, the ways I work with people with movement, it's similar, it's very similar in terms of, you know, ideally, right, we all learn how to move in this very curious, exploratory playful way. And we move just like as a way of expressing ourselves to like, you know, play to, you know, move from one place to another to, like, explore what our bodies are capable of. And we don't need a word for it. It's only like, as culture, slowly siphons that out of us and teaches us how to be still and you know, how to live in our heads, you know, which I know is a big barrier to sensuality to like, when you're living so much in your head. It's only through that, that then we need to like, Okay, now we have to intentionally set aside this practice.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. And that's, that's one of the reasons why I find it so powerful to give folks a permission slip, as opposed to here is a model, or here is a framework or practice, that you have to perfect in order to be sensual. Like, I truly believe that if you have a body, you are a sensual being and the only thing that we have to do is create the space and the time for our bodies to speak to us. We have to give ourselves permission to feel into the pleasures and the sensuality of our own bodies. And yeah, unfortunately, because of the way that we've been indoctrinated and disintegrated from our culture, we have to make that a practice. But what I love about this book, Sensual Self is that it just gives you the opportunity to define your sensuality on your terms, because that's the other thing about sensuality. I mean, I think a lot about sensuality. And I think a lot about what other people think about sensuality.
I've been doing a lot of conversations, podcast interviews, events, talking about this. And a lot of people don't really know what sensuality is, I mean, they have like a, they have an image of it in their minds, and it's very sexualized. It's like, the come hither, look, it's like, you know, cleavage and pouty lips, and sucking lollipops and things like that. Which I think that those are expressions and aspects of what it can look like when someone is fully in their sensual body, and they are applying it to their sexuality and their erotic life. But that's not everything. And so I really, I really feel that sensuality, as a concept has been completely flattened by capitalism. And it's been flattened by the traumatic experiences that we've had. And so with this book, I hope that the questions and practices I give folks will just help it like help their sensuality, not sensuality as a foreign concept or general concept, but their sensuality, just like pops open to life for them, and they're able to feel and experience it with their own lives, so much so that maybe it doesn't have to become a practice. Maybe it's just a part of the way that they are in the world.
Jonathan Mead
That is such a perfect transition to what I wanted to ask you about because I think that they're those stereotypes, right? And unpacking those stereotypes is so important to be able to access within your own self in a very simple, direct way. Right? Like what can my experience of pleasure and being in my body, be like, because when I think of sensuality, I think of a lot of those same vignettes, as you like, Oh, this is the and it's like, it's often very tied with like, Oh, here's the right way or like, the like this would be the best way to experience sensuality. You know, I think of like cliche things like taking a bubble bath or like, you know, flowers or you know, like, face cream and stuff that can be like, but again it's the way you do it right? Because all those things, they can actually be very genuine and authentic. But when you're doing them because you're like, perform trying to perform sensuality, then it's like you lose the essence of it. So I'm, I was curious for you like, with your sensual practice and what you're wanting to share with people with this. What, in your view, is the importance of—kind of like dropping it down to almost the mundane level like. Yeah, like, maybe even moments that you would like, not think are supposed to be sensual?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I'm really glad you asked this question. Because when I was writing the book, you know, I was thinking a lot about like, filling it with questions and prompts and exercises that looked very much like, go out and buy an expensive face cream and put it on your face. Like, don't get me wrong, I love an expensive face cream, you can attest to that.
Jonathan Mead
I mean, Ev'Yan's shelf in the bathroom is—there's not a lot of room for other stuff.
Ev'Yan Whitney
But that's not where sensuality lives, your sensuality is within you. And those things those face creams, bubble baths, flowers, they can enact or you know, arouse your senses, but that the sensuality doesn't live in those things. And so I was feeling into like, well, culture tells us that sensuality looks like the specific way it looks like this specific kind of self-care or embodiment, or whatever. But that's not how I see sensuality. Like the most sensual experiences that I've ever had have been the most mundane, like-
Jonathan Mead
Can you give me some examples? Because I'm really curious.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. One of the reasons why I love cooking so much, even when I'm dog tired, and I've had a day where I've been in front of my computer, and I've been in meetings, like, even if my body is like, just lay on the couch and do nothing. I love the sensory experience of cooking, the chopping of the vegetables, like the picking out of like, which kale leaves are going to make it into the saute pan, like the smells and the tastes. And sometimes, you know, like yesterday, actually, when I was cooking dinner for us, I did this practice where I didn't have anything in my ears. I wasn't listening to a podcast, there wasn't music playing. I was just with myself in silence. And I was just feeling into how does my feet feel on the ground as I'm stirring this pot? Like how, what am I experiencing in my body as I am picking this, this potato, putting it on the ground and holding the knife in my hand? Like sensuality, for me is about slowing down. Like we can only experience the richness and the depth of our sensual selves when we are in a space of being slow and soft. Right? So cooking for me is and that means some it doesn't happen every time. You know, like there are some times when I'm like, I gotta cook this meal because I need to get done with this so that I can do a meeting. But whenever I can, I really try to make cooking that space for me to just like be in my body be in my senses, allowing myself to smell and to taste and to like drink in with my eyes, the beauty, and the shapes and the colors and the textures of what I'm doing. That is really wonderful for me.
And that's really mundane. I mean, most people—actually I was in, um, I was in a grocery line, I think a few months ago, and someone was checking me out, you know, checking out my groceries. And the guy was bagging them, he was like, "do you like to cook? Because it looks like you got a lot of stuff" and I was like, "Yeah, I love cooking." And then I realized that in saying that I love to cook, that's not really describing like to the depths of why I like cooking. It's not about like, I love making recipes. For me, it's like this is an invitation for me to be in my body and for me to practice this, this practice that I feel really connected to and like really dedicated to of sensuality. I mean, another one, I'll just give another one just because I mean it's so simple, but breathing. I think that's, you know that I've taken a breathwork course I'm a certified breath worker now, which is really awesome. And the power of just being able to sit and breathe. Wow. Like that- It's so boring and it's so simple but doing this course and whenever I have the ability to like sit down and do breathwork for myself- And when I say breathwork I'm not talking about like doing all these funky breathwork patterns just like literally sitting and feeling what it feels like to have my breath, go into my belly, and deflate out of my belly. Like that, to me, is one of the sensual, most sensual things that I can do. Because it's asking me to be fully present in my body. And it's asking me to like to connect to my body to move from this, like, what is it called? Like, top-up space?
Jonathan Mead
Top down?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Or yea, top-up, bottom down? I think it's— anyway, you know what I mean.
Jonathan Mead
One of the funny things, maybe this will be a little funny thing to share. But Ev'Yan's brain works so fast sometimes that they often like, switch things. So I have a special way of understanding when Ev’Yan talks because it's often like the opposite. And they'll be like, Oh, it's the top-up. And I'm like, yeah, they mean the bottom down. But it's one of the things I love about you. That's— I love that you shared something like that I think people can relate to a lot. And it's not like everyone doesn't have that same experience with cooking, where it is like a sensual practice or a sensual experience. And a lot of people they're like, they don't like cooking they have they think it's, you know, a chore, or they just want to get it over with. . .
Ev'Yan Whitney
Or they're not good at it...
Jonathan Mead
Right. But I imagine like, what if you experienced it as maybe you end up being like, now cooking is not for me, and that's totally fine. But have you yet tried it from a place of sensuality, and had the opportunity to experience it that way, because I know, one of the benefits I've had of being in relationship with you is, like, you exposed me to a different way of relating to the experience of cooking, and that it could actually be an experience in and of itself. Like I just saw it as like, oh, there's some annoying thing that I have to do to get done because my body needs food. Which is a really, that doesn't mean like I didn't like food, but it was a really like kind of sad way relating to the process of like something that we, you know, need to do every day.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I think I really think that I got that from my mom, you know, like I have vivid memories of my mom being in the kitchen, making food and it would just be like a regular ass Tuesday. But I could tell that my mom was making it from a place of presence and, and passion and delight and joy for the folks who had the pleasure of eating whatever she was cooking. And so I think that's why I have such a close association with cooking to sensuality, because I witnessed my mom, and even my grandmother's do the same. You know, for me, it wasn't just like we're making food so we can eat it. It's like that is part of the experience. And also, I believe that when you are fully embodied in your body that way, when you're in the space of sensuality, and slowness and savoring, it shows up in the food, like some of the best food I've ever made, is because I was taking my time and I was tasting it. And I was like in my body and I was humming to myself as I was cooking it and like there was a there was an intention about every single piece that I put to that meal. And I mean, yeah, I feel like the food that I make is so bomb because of my presence and attention to the work that I do with that, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, you're like literally infusing it with your energy and your intention. I love that. Yeah, just opening up people to a different possibility. And it makes me think about how sensuality, in the way you've been describing it is a way to enhance any moment and bring greater joy and greater pleasure to any moment. But also a resource in some ways that we have access to, like the resource of your breath, or, you know, feeling your feet on the ground are noticing the light in the room and how these things in our such crazy sped-up world and we're living in our heads and we're taking in so much all the time. Like it takes us out of our direct experience and that I think can contribute to a lot of anxiety, a lot of like challenges mental health-wise, I'm, I'm curious for you like how has sensuality been a practice in that way of helping you like ground yourself and, like regulate yourself? Take care of yourself?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. That's an excellent question. I think that's why, to me, sensuality doesn't feel like a one-off thing that you do. It's a practice that I try to cultivate. because it has better or greater benefits to me than just like, look at me, I'm being sensual. It helps like, regulate my nervous system. It helps calm my anxiety, it helps ground me into my body when I'm like spinning out, you know? Even if it's just for five minutes. Like, can you notice something in this room that is giving you a space of joy or a space of softness in your body? You know, that just that question in and of itself can help me grounded to my breath a little bit. Like it slows my breathing down or deepens my breath? You know, I'm a very shallow breather. Yeah, sensuality, for me is not, it's so much more than the face creams. And, you know, the pretty dresses, like one thing that I like to say in my work is that we've been taught that our sensuality, or at least I've been taught that my sensuality is for somebody else. It's like something that somebody else gets to consume, feel into, enjoy, and savor.
But the flip for me has been like, No, my sensuality is just for me, like, that is a personal private experience that I have with my body. And yeah, I invite people into that experience, you know, just by virtue of me being in my body, and folks picking up on that energy as we were talking about in the beginning. But first and foremost, I do it for me, it's, it's a gift to my body, especially in this frenetic world that we live in, to connect to myself in that way. And oftentimes, my sensual self comes through in those moments where nobody is looking. And I felt that actually come through a lot when we were living apart. Because, and I wrote this book while we were living apart, because it gave me- I had so much space, and so much quiet and so much stillness, that it really allowed me to be in that practice of sensuality, in ways that, you know, that I'm speaking to now. As opposed to, I'm going to buy a face mask, and I'm going to lay in a bubble bath, you know? Which, again, I don't want to knock those things because God knows I love a good bath. But I really want to make sensuality, accessible to people. And no matter where they are, no matter what their bodies doing, no matter what, you know, their socio-economical background is, like I want them to know that their sensuality is a part of them. It's not something that can ever be taken away from you. And it is something that, that we all need to make attention and intention for. I think not a lot of us are doing that deep work of connection to our bodies, which I understand why. It's scary. And there's trauma. And we're so busy all the time. But I hope that this book at least gives folks the opportunity to just very gently and slowly dip a toe and to what making this as a practice can look like for them.
Jonathan Mead
I think it will. I think it's a really gentle way to enter into your body and to be able to experience it at the level you're ready for. And you encourage people a lot to check in and keep you know, giving them permission to like, Hey, you can slow down or like do last or like see how this feels for you and leave this prompt or come back to this prompt later. And there's such a great variety of things that I think it's going to speak to people in the way that they most, you know, they most need it.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Can I ask a question for you actually, since we're, since we're talking about it, is that okay?
Jonathan Mead
I mean, you asked.
Ev'Yan Whitney
[Laughs] Well, I just— I'm talking to you, you identify as a man. And I'm curious about men's sensuality. I feel like it's something that we don't see or talk about, like even putting those two words together men's sensuality I just don't hear that.
Jonathan Mead
Men need to have a word for it that makes them feel safe. So it'd be like “mensuality” or like, something stupid like that.
Ev'Yan Whitney
[Laughs] Yeah. So I mean, I know that this is might be a little strange of a question to ask because, you know, you can't be as objective but I just wonder as a man reading this book or going through this book, like what was coming up for you around your sensual body and your sensuality as a man because for me, I feel like sensuality has been like, designated for the women-folk only, you know.
Jonathan Mead
Right. Yeah, I think so. And I speak I think especially in terms of how we define sensuality, and we characterize it as Then we commodify it, package it in, you know, and sell it in a certain way, right? Where, where I think there are probably a lot of areas where men are sensual in themselves, or with each other that maybe are just more socially acceptable ways for men to do that. Right, like, so I think that does exist. But I think that there's a lot of room for men to experience more sensuality, than they are, you know, quote, unquote, allowed to in their gender roles to be able to perform what it means to be a, quote, unquote, good man or whatever. And yeah, I mean, I guess I can speak for me personally. Sensuality has been something that's always been very close to me. Especially, like I did have a lot of influence growing up from from women, I have four sisters. So I got that sensitivity, just by being around it and being steeped in it. But then I also got the messages of like, Hey, you're not supposed to be like this, because you're a boy right. So it's very confusing and conflicting for me. And then, you know, like, the other I guess, layer to it is just having experiences that I didn't know how to process emotionally that led me to retreat, like most people do into their heads, too.
So like, I had, that I had a lot of things like kind of like, that made it more challenging for me to access my sensuality. And for me, I feel like just learning to reclaim who I am, as an individual outside of my gender, or how I'm supposed to perform that gender has been very liberating for me to open up into greater depths of sensuality. Because that's very authentic for me, like, I feel like I thrive in the most sensual moments, even moments that are, that we might not see as very sensual, that can be actually very hard or challenging. Like, when I'm experiencing that as like a full-bodied experience, and like, very connected to that moment, that feels very much like the most natural way for me to experience that. So I think probably the most helpful things for me has been movement, and meditation, you know, to be able to have a personal way to reconnect with that. But like you were saying too, which I, I don't feel like we could talk about this enough, but starting to blur the lines between like, what is your practice? I mean, of course, there's value to having a dedicated practice, right? Like, you're prioritizing that you're carving out space. Like you it's a place for you to really learn new things. But eventually, right, you want to expand that to the rest of your life and your whole life is the practice, right? Your whole life can be sensual. And that was, and still is I think probably the biggest area for growth for me right now is learning how to continually outside of the box of what I'm supposed to be as a man or my gender, or even just as like a respectable member of society, right? Like to be like, Ah, no, I'm gonna do this instead. And, okay, I could do that.
And oftentimes I found, you know, I know, this isn't the experience for everyone, but just specifically speaking as a man, when I have allowed my sensuality to be seen my sensitivity to be seen, and have invited other men into that, it's often been met with a lot of welcome. And a lot of like, relief. And I think that's the like- That's the part that a lot of people maybe wouldn't expect a lot of times, and I'm sure there's different experiences where other men have tried to do that, and they've had violence done against them for that. And I think that's, you know, of course, very real, but I've had the experience a lot of times or it's been met with like, oh, like, wow, you're you can be like that? Oooh.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, just gives them permission to soften. Yeah, for sure. Dang, I want to have a conversation with you about men's sensuality. Let's put a pin in this because yeah, there's so much here that I want to explore. But something that was coming up for me as I was hearing you speak in terms of making this a practice is really thinking about what are you committed to, you know? What kind of life do you want to live? That's been a question that I've been thinking about all year, as I've been reading this book, The Politics of Trauma, which is about somatics, and coming into your body and trauma, healing and resolution and so many beautiful things. And one of the practices that is given in this book is an invitation to think about, like, what are you a commitment to? And to really think about, like, if you are a commitment to being stuck and hard and unmoved unmoving in your body, like that's going to show up in every single aspect of your life, like no matter what. And so I think that like having that, having that question, come up, for me has been a way for me to orient constantly to, you know, and I will share what my commitment is, I am a commitment to softening my body and staying in union with myself.
And anytime I say that it just sort of like, it's like a North Star. It's like, okay, this is where I want to be, if I'm going to soften into my body, that means I have to open my heart, it means I have to slow down. And it means I have to listen to my body. If I'm going to be in union with myself, it means I have to stay present with everything that's coming up, even if it's hard, even if it's quote-unquote, bad. So yeah, I want to offer that as a question to think about, what are you a commitment to today? And what do you want to be a commitment to? And how and in particular, how can that question maybe orient you to a practice of sensuality that isn't just like, Okay, I'm gonna do my sensuality today, but is something that you can constantly come back to every day? Like, am I a commitment to softness? In this moment? No. How can I soften? You know, things like that.
Jonathan Mead
I love how you said, “What am I a commitment to.” Which feels like very much more alive than what am I committed to? Like, what am I a commitment to sounds like an ongoing process.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's right.
Jonathan Mead
Right, rather than like, Hey, here's, I'm committed to this. And then it's like, okay, now I reached the destination, you know, so I think that's, that's so cool. And it makes me think about, okay, let me feel into that.
Yeah.
What is a sensual moment that you really enjoy? That might be I don't know, kind of, like, weird or that people wouldn't expect. I know, we talked about the cooking one already. But that's kind of like, I think most people could see how that could be, even if they're not just to bring this even more into the realm of like, everyday moments, maybe something people like, oh, wow, you can be sensual there?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Let me think, I mean, living in Los Angeles, again, has made me think a lot about, you know, just how, how hard of a city this can be, can be to live in. There are a lot of unsensual things that are happening here. There are a lot of beautiful things here. But there are also a lot of unsensual things like leaf blowers and car horns going off and fire trucks driving by really loudly. And so my practice living in this space that can sometimes take me out of my body, and make me feel maybe even bring up some fight or flight or some trauma responses, is just to try to be sensual in those moments like to try to bring some presence of like, yes, my body is feeling stuff. I'm hearing leaf blowers for the last two hours and like in this moment, I'm still safe. Even focusing on you know, if there's something really annoying going on, one thing that I've been trying to do is to focus on something else like see, is there anything else in this room because things are always happening at the same time. It's never black or white. Like a leaf blower’s blowing and that is the only experience that we're having. It's like okay, yes, a leaf blower’s blowing and I feel the warmth of the sun hitting my left cheek, as I'm sitting next to this window, and that feels really good. Or my partner just walked by, and I loved the way that he smiled at me and that made me feel really good. Just really trying to both and situation because I think-
Yeah, I think a lot of times when things are happening that are loud or obnoxious, we can just focus on the annoyance and the irritation of that. And that's been something that I feel I've, my love, I've been trying to help you with, you know, being here and how, yeah, how uncomfortable it can be here. I think the reason why those things don't bother me or unroot me as much is because I realize I'm grounded in so many other areas. You know, if you were a human being living in this crazy fucked up world we live in like, it's going to be complex, and it's going to be sticky. And it's going to come with a lot of weird emotions and sensations to your body. But the practices like how can even in the midst of the hurricane around me, how can I find a sense of calmness and stillness and safety and pleasure in this moment? And you know, I think pleasures don't have to be these grand gestures of like, oh my god, I'm eating a chocolate cake. And I feel like my body is undulating as I'm eating it like that's, it could be that or it could just be like what I said before, like, the sun is hitting my cheek, and it feels really warm. And I like that.
Jonathan Mead
What's your deepest wish for people that get this book?
Ev'Yan Whitney
When I was writing this book, I was thinking about that question a lot. Actually, before I started writing it, I first wrote like an essay about like, who this book was for what I wanted them to feel as they were opening the pages, and then what I wanted them to experience as they were playing around with their sensuality as well. And for me, it always comes back to like I want for- I want people to feel connected to themselves. Whatever form that takes that can be connected to their body that could be connected to their sensuality, I just, I think a lot of us are so disconnected from ourselves and so disconnected from our wisdom, our intuition, the messages that we are constantly getting from our bodies, we're disconnected from our desires, we're disconnected from the things that make us feel good, because we've been, we've been taught to prioritize other things and other people.
So I just, if nothing else, if nothing else, I want for folks to feel that they- even if it's just for like five minutes, I just want for them to feel a connection to themselves. And like, not even just like for specific purpose just to like feel what it feels like to be back in union with yourself. And to even like, make it so that this book is a practice, you know, that intention is like anytime I pick up that book, it's going to be for the purpose of me connecting to myself and whatever's coming up whatever sensations, emotions or thoughts are coming up. There's a lot of power, and being connected to ourselves. There's a lot of things that we know about ourselves and understand a lot of things we can heal about ourselves. So yeah, that's, I have a lot of wishes. But I think that's, that's the biggest wish that I have for folks is for them to connect to themselves. And to be curious about what's there. You know? Like when they do that connection. Because I think oftentimes, there's this, this narrative of like connection, it's gonna feel good. Sometimes when you connect to yourself, it's gonna be scary, you know, you're not going to like what you see, or you're going to be critical about what you find. And so my hope is that while there is connection, there's also a sense of like curiosity there, you know. Yeah, that's, that's what I want.
Jonathan Mead
I wish those things for anyone who gets this book too. And I know that all of those things are very likely to happen if you pick up this book, if you read it, if you do the prompts, if you slow down and really allow yourself to tune in with your body, with your desires, with what feels natural to you, and I know Ev'Yan puts so much love and attention and their Virgo too so you know, like every line is very pixel perfect. It's very intentional about why this word comes before that word. So you know, you're in good hands. I mean, when a Virgo wrote the book.
Ev'Yan Whitney
[Laughs] That's right. We rule the world, you know.
Jonathan Mead
It's true. So I encourage you to get this book, where should they get it?
Ev'Yan Whitney
I prioritize independent bookstores. You know, I know that we live in a world that is Amazon, like, lives on Amazon. But see if you can find it at an independent bookstore, you can go to my website, there are a couple of places that you can click, I can put the link to the show notes for that, but yeah, prioritize independent bookstores. But hey, if you want to get it on Amazon, I'm not gonna blame you. Because I, I get it, you know, but yeah, independent bookstores are great. And like, this is only the beginning. You know, like I really, I really want for folks to just go on this journey with me and also with themselves knowing that this is like, this is only beginning like this book is the first step on a long path of sensual reclamation.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, it's a beautiful introduction back to yourself. And I'm so excited for you, I'm so proud of you. how hard you've worked on this for how much love you've poured into this book, this project. And I know that it's going to transform anyone who decides to get it. And I think also, this makes a really good gift. Like, if you want, you know, of course, you can never like, like, make someone be more sensual. But I just think like, if our world was a little more sensual, the people in our lives, we'd all be having a better time. Yeah, maybe get this for your family.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Thank you, my love, for this conversation. And for being such a rock and an anchor for me as I've been through the tumult of writing this book, promoting this book. I'm so ready for it to be out. And I'm so happy that people can get it today.
Jonathan Mead
Yes! It's time, it is time, I'm excited to celebrate with you. And get the book, go get it, stop listening, go get the book.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh, I love you, honey.
. . .
I love that man. I love him for so many reasons. But one of the ones that's coming up for me after revisiting that conversation, is just how lucky I feel to be seen. Like, really, really seen by this person. Jonathan knows me. So well. He knows the things that scare me. The things that soften me. He knows what I need to feel safe and cared for. He knows how to make me laugh and piss me off. And he often knows things about me that I don't have to communicate with words because he knows my energy. And he can read it really well. To get to experience that kind of emotional and spiritual intimacy with someone, to have him on my team as my lover and my friend and my teacher and my confidant to have him hyping my work and this book with me when there have been so many moments where I've wanted to shrink or quit, or just disconnect from my excellence all together, I just, I feel so lucky in this moment to be seen and loved unconditionally, by him. To be so supported with his love, and just his generosity, his presence. And I'm really grateful that he created this space for me to share my sensual self in a different way with you.
Even though it's out in the world today. And I've been talking about this book for months and months, talking about this book, as a thing that exists is still so surreal for me. Like I'm not used to the concept of being someone who wrote a book. My cousin actually asked me the other day, "so what does it feel like to be a published author?" And I honestly can't remember my response to her because my being a "published author" and saying that with bunny ears, hasn't really landed in my body just yet. What has landed in my body is a feeling of effervescent joy, that it's here, and that you get to savor the juicy fruits of my labor when it comes to this book. And my God, I want you to savor it.
I want you to feel your sensual self move through your senses. I want you to experience the rhythm and flow of your sensuality with your own body. I want you to explore the depths of feeling and pleasure, that is your birthright. And I want you to claim it as yours. Not with grand gestures or Instagrammable acts of self-care. Even though those things can be really delicious. No, I want your sensuality to be as simple as an intentional breath. As easeful as deciding to listen to your body's desires. I want the expression of your sensuality to be as natural to you, as it is to say, yes. Not just for the pleasure of it, but for your personal liberation, and as an act, and as an act of rebellion against all the forces and systems in this world that have tried to make you abandon yourself and condition your softness out of you. I want you to start today, I want you to start right now.
I know this is usually the part where I share with you a central practice. But can I just make your sensual practice this week to go buy my book? Is that okay? I mean, I don't know after going on that long spiel, it just feels right. You know? I mean, I wrote Sensual Self to help you come home to your sensuality with questions and practices that will get you to prioritize your pleasure, your feelings, and the sensations and messages of your body. Like I literally created this book for you to be able to express your sensuality, on your terms, in your own time. Sensual Self was made for you to put pen to paper and embody your sensual self with playfulness, and curiosity. And I feel that it's the perfect place to start to reclaim your sensuality from the grips of the patriarchy, and the binary and the manipulations of capitalism. So yeah, that's my task for you this week, dive into my book, Sensual Self.
For those of you who have already pre-ordered, that will be happening for you very soon, you should be receiving shipping notifications and your email in a couple of days if you haven't already. And your copy should be coming in the mail in just a few days. So thank you so much for pre-ordering. And thank you so much for your support. And once it's finally in your hands, I want to invite you to take a moment to drink in its beauty. Feel the weight of it in your hands, delight in the images and the quotes and the colors on the pages. Take your time to explore some of the prompts and my messages to you before you begin diving in. And if it feels right, invite others to hold you accountable to this journey you're embarking on, this journey of sensual self-discovery and body mindfulness.
I'm so excited. I'm so so so excited. You can get a copy of Sensual Self today, either in person or online. But I really encourage you to get it from an independent bookstore if you can. If you don't see it there, tell them to stock it. And man, I am so excited about what you are going to uncover within yourself as you create a commitment to connect to your sensuality.
In the meantime, this booked and busy bitch needs to get ready for tonight. I have a lot to do. Maybe I'll see you in LA tonight. Or maybe I'll see you in Seattle in a couple of days or wherever in the world you'll be tuning in on Sunday during my reclaim your sensual self event. Again, link in the show notes for all of these juicy details about where you can find me where you can find my book where you can meet me. I really hope to see you there. And thank you so so much for your support. Thank you so much for sharing in this excitement with me as I birth my book baby. I am beyond thrilled to be in this body and to get to experience this joy right alongside with you.
Ah I did it! I have a book. y'all. My book! My book is out! Oh, it feels so good. So so good. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.
. . .
Sensual Self is created and hosted by me, Ev'Yan Whitney. It is edited and produced by Tribble. Music is by Melodiesinfonie from his song, Just Healing. For everything you want to know about this podcast, including previous episodes, show notes, transcripts, and resources. Go to evyanwhitney.com/podcasts. You can also follow the show on Instagram @sensual.self.
If you have a moment, I would love it if you rated and reviewed this podcast. It helps others find the show and as a result, it helps them uncover their sensual self. As for me, I'm on Instagram @evyan.whitney, and if you want to know more about me and my work, go to evyanwhitney.com.
And please check out my book, Sensual Self: Prompts and Practices for Getting in Touch With Your Sensual Body to preorder go to evyanwhitney.com/sensualself. Thanks so much for being here and for creating the space for yourself. I'll see you in the next one.