Episode 57: Intergenerational Pleasure (with Juju Bae)
Prioritizing our pleasure to heal and liberate our ancestors. In this one, Ev’Yan speaks with Juju Bae—a medium and Hoodoo practitioner—about intergenerational pleasure and what it looks like to honor the pleasure practices of our ancestors. Juju talks about the audacity of Black joy, ancestral reverence, sex magic, and cultivating your intuition as a sixth sense. Ev’Yan also shares a practice to help you tune into the ancestral wisdom in your body.
“Black people have always enjoyed themselves amidst pain and trauma. We still laugh, we still joke, we still shake our ass, we still fuck. When we think about it, we shouldn’t be doing any of those things because of what we’ve experienced and what we do experience. And yet, we still do. That talks to the innate sensuality that we carry.” —Juju Bae
Full transcript of this episode is below.
Also mentioned in this episode:
Juju’s podcast, A Little Juju
Juju Bae is a medium, reiki practitioner and enthusiast of African and Diasporic religious and spiritual practices. She is the host of A Little Juju Podcast that explores the mysteries of ancestral traditions, while being a millennial bad bitch witch. She is a teacher, lover, and manifester of all things love and liberation.
Transcription:
Hey, welcome to Sensual Self. I'm Ev'Yan Whitney and this is a space for you to slow down, tune in, heal and feel the sensations and pleasures of your sensual body. Thank you for being here.
. . .
Hello sensual one, and welcome to another episode of Sensual Self. I'm really jazzed about this episode I'm sharing with you today. Because even though it's been a few months since this conversation was first recorded, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. And not just the conversation, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this concept of intergenerational pleasure, and how important it is to make space for that in our lives, particularly as marginalized folks.
So many of us are familiar with intergenerational trauma. We're familiar with the toil and struggle of our ancestors. And I know for me, I've been guilty of focusing only on that. Focusing on the ways that I need to heal myself and break these intergenerational curses so that I can be a freer person than the people who came before me. And sometimes that focus can lead to me being closed off to other things, I can also feel into instead, like joy, and satisfaction, and pleasure. Intergenerational pleasure, for me, means thinking about the ways that my ancestors, the ones I know and do not know, from way, way back in the day, and also from the recent past, how they were able to access feelings of pleasure in their bodies. What rituals and traditions they had to connect themselves to joy, and what communities they created to nurture that pleasure and that joy.
It also makes me think about, in a real way, how there were a lot of my ancestors that did not have time for pleasure, who did not have access to feeling free and joyful in their bodies, because their humanity was stripped from them. And when I think about that, I get really sad. I also feel a sense of responsibility that I must, with every intention that I can muster, live my life to the fullest expression of pleasure, and joy and freedom in my body, to not just do it for myself, but to do it for them. To do it for my ancestors who weren't able to do that in their lifetime. In this way, I see my essential self as a walking altar, in honor of my ancestors, a kind of prayer that I speak with my body that shows them that I can be the actualization of pleasure, that for them was never fully realized. And yeah, I realized that this is deep, it's really deep.
So in thinking about all of this, I wanted to flesh it out with someone whose work I admire, whose work I respect, and who I feel can help guide us into this territory of intergenerational pleasure to weave with our bodies, new stories, and memories for those who came before us. And for those who will come after us. And immediately, my friend Juju came into my mind.
Juju Bae is a medium, a Reiki practitioner, and an enthusiast of African and diasporic religious and spiritual practices. I actually had the pleasure and honor of getting a reading from Juju, when I was in the very, very early stages of forming my own ancestral veneration practices. And it was through her wisdom (and also her podcast, A Little Juju, please check that out) that I was able to confidently connect to my ancestors in a way that I hadn't had access to before. And I was really curious about what she might add to this conversation, what messages might come through her as we discussed something that feels so rich and alive to me. And what's interesting is that when we were having this conversation, I didn't really know what to expect. I mean, I had lots of questions that I wanted to ask her. But I wasn't quite sure how the dialogue was going to go or flow. And as you'll see, once we get into the episode, our ancestors were really chatty. I mean, I felt them in the room. I felt them speaking through me, as we discussed ritual, and magic, and indigenous wisdom. It was really special. And probably one of the reasons why I, three months later, can't get this conversation out of my head. Juju and I talked about sex magic.
We talked about the audacity of black joy, what it looks like to honor and acknowledge our ancestors’ sexuality. We talked about some practices from a spiritual space on how you can connect to your body. And this one thing that I'm really excited to keep exploring, we talked about what it looks like to cultivate your sixth sense, aka your intuition as a part of your sensuality. So yeah, this is one of those conversations that I recommend you give your full attention to, or at the very least, bookmark this and listen to it a couple of times because it's so good. It's so beautiful, and it's really, really rich, it's really rich.
Actually, you know, what's coming up for me right now, is wanting to give you an invitation for you to maybe play this episode aloud near your ancestral altar, and invite your honorable dead to tune in with you. Anyway, whatever you do, there are lots of gems in here that I can't wait for you to explore on your own. One of which I share at the end of this episode, so stay till the end. And shout out to my ancestors for showing up and showing out in this episode. I do this in honor of y'all.
. . .
Ev’Yan Whitney
Hi, Juju.
Juju Bae
Hey, Ev'Yan
Ev'Yan Whitney
I'm really excited to chat with you today. We were talking about this before we hit record but I will say here for the record that I have wanted you to be on my podcast for a long time. So I'm pretty jazzed to chat with you about sensuality, spirituality, sexuality. But before we get into that, I want to just like have you introduce yourself to everyone I could try and I thought about trying but I'm like how I just don't know if I would be able to use the right words to encompass all of your magic. So please, please introduce yourself to everyone.
Juju Bae
Okay, thank you. Um, well, I'm Juju or Juju Bae, that's what I go by. I'm a spiritual advisor, a diviner, an ancestral fan. I love my ancestors, I encourage people to connect with their ancestors. I'm a podcaster as well, I'm on A Little Juju podcast where I talk about black spirituality and everything that that means I'm a Reiki practitioner. So I do energy healing. And I'm a bad bitch witch is really what I call myself I'm just, you know, a black girl out here trying to figure it out. But also you know, dabbles and learns and studies you know, spiritual shifts. So that's me.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes. I'm so glad you intro'd yourself. Because you are you do so many things. And you're really like connected. I feel to Spirit because it's part of the work that you do. But also I feel like your connection with spirit with the dead with the I was about to say, the underworld,
Juju Bae
Yes, underworld!
Ev'Yan Whitney
I'm not sure if that's giving what I wanted to give, but, but I feel like you You have this connection, because of just like who you are, I was actually listening to a couple podcasts with you just you know, to research and stuff like that. And you're Scorpio moon and, uh, yeah, it feels very much like, this is who you are, because how could you not be anything else? Like it just runs through you. So I'm just so glad that you do all the things and, and you do them so well,
Juju Bae
Thank you. I appreciate that. And my love language is words of affirmation. So I need to hear things like that so that I know that I am. So thank you for saying that. I receive it all.
Ev'Yan Whitney
You deserve it and more. So I really wanted to have this conversation with you about spirituality, sensuality, sexuality. And it's something that I've kind of gotten away from, I think in the beginning of my work, I was really interested in like, Tantra, and this sort of, like sacred sexuality that I think a lot of people were talking about. But I got a little like, not like you can't see, like, they can't see my face. But I'm just like, I don't know, like I'm, I'm eating something really sour, just like, I just got a little wary of it. And now because of the beautiful work that you do regarding African traditional religions who do and things like that, like I'm starting to find more of a pole, and a curiosity about how to blend spirituality, with sexuality, sensuality, coming into the body. And one of the things that came up for me, as I was thinking about this conversation with you is like, we all know what sensuality is, sensuality is, you know, the expression of sensation, feeling and experiencing through all five senses. But I believe that we actually have six senses, because our intuition is a sense. And so I wondered if you could speak a little bit about the importance of cultivating your intuition as a sixth sense, when we're talking about spirituality when we're talking about sexuality, because I think sometimes people would think that intuition may not be that important, or they might like disembody it. But yeah, I wondered what you thought about that?
Juju Bae
Oh, that's a good, juicy question. Well, I think like, intuition, as a sixth sense, is like really powerful as an idea. So I appreciate you sharing that with me. And also think about just living in the West, you know, being from the United States. Now, intuition is not a sense that was one that we've been trained in, it's not one that we get, it's taught in school, it's not one that you know, people regard as being legitimate because we live in a society where you know, facts, numbers, data research, what I can see is what is real, and everything else is false. And when we think about it from an ATR African traditional religion, or even just some black standpoint, or indigenous standpoint, we know that that's not true. Like we know that our ancestors prioritized the quote-unquote, unseen, you know, as a way to live their lives, through readings through divination, through connection with spirit connection with the body. So I love the idea as intuition as a sixth sense, because it brings in all the other stuff that the West has told us is unimportant, or unregarded, or unacknowledged, aka our ancestors or spirits, ourselves, our knowing the things that we may not have research or facts on, but we know that's not what we should do at the time. Well, we know that's what we should do. We know this is the move we should make. We know that's not, you know, There's no Western science that can prove that or not, or disprove it. But um, but we know and so, I love that you asked that question. I'm going to include that in my own senses when I think about all of our senses. But yeah, I think it's really like a disruption of what we've been taught, particularly if you live in the West. So yeah, that's how I see intuition. That's how I embody it. I try to embody it as the truth as a piece of the truth.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I'm trying to think right now. Like where I heard or like, came not because I didn't come up with it. But I know that I've I know that people have said that your intuition is a sixth sense. I don't see a lot of people talking about that these days were and so that was one of the reasons why I wanted to ask that question. Because I feel like it's my intuition is a really big part of how I am in my body, and how I'm able to receive messages or create more intimacy. Like there is, for me a connection with intuition to the rest of my senses and my sensuality, and I'm like, Why? I don't know. It's just interesting that I don't see people talking about that aspect of it.
Juju Bae
It is interesting and like, it's not surprising, you know, cuz I was saying before, who's who was, you know, what I study and then no one's telling us, okay, and then your intuition on top of the facts and the numbers that we've told you about your intuition. You know, it's a part that's been pushed aside and disregarded. But that's where the most power is. I always think so.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I agree. I agree. So you mentioned a little bit about ancestors. And I think that I am in a place with my own spiritual work and my own ancestral reverence that I'm starting to sort of connect the dots when it comes to the ways that my ancestors were sexual, and sensual. And, and even from a place of like, nonsexual pleasure, like how, how much of a privilege it was for some of my ancestors to experience pleasure. And so as I'm thinking about this work that I'm doing to liberate my own sexuality, my sensuality, the agency and autonomy that I have with my own body, so that I can receive pleasure, I'm also thinking about the work that I'm doing on behalf of my honorable ancestors who did not have that opportunity to do that. And so from that place, I think that I don't know, this is how I see it. And I wonder if this is true for you. But I feel like when we think about our ancestors, it's like, they're almost regarded as saints, you know, like, they're very stoic, and they're up and up in the heavens, right? They're looking down upon us, but they're like real beings with real soul and opinions and experiences. So I guess my question for you is like, like how? I have I have so many questions, to be honest, but I wonder if you could speak to, like this connection of ancestry within sexuality. And like the importance of honoring the sexual autonomy and the sexual beingness and the pleasure potential that our ancestors had or just didn't have the opportunity to experience?
Juju Bae
Ev'Yan, it's deep, okay? Because when you were talking, my eyes were welling up with tears. Because every time I personally think about my ancestors, and the pleasure that they had or didn't have, it makes me very emotional. Yeah, um, because I can't imagine. Like, I don't know what it meant to experience pleasure. during a time of that much trauma. You know, we think about enslavement, being in the midst of colonialism. Having to reject your native ideas and beliefs. Like I don't. It's hard for me to even comprehend what it felt and looked like, and it makes me just very emotional.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. I'm getting emotional, too just thinking about it—
Juju Bae
I know.
Ev'Yan Whitney
—it's big. Yeah.
Juju Bae
It's huge. And you know, when I think about sensuality, like you said, it's bigger than its sex, it's bigger than that. It's just the embodiment of whatever you're doing. With song. You know, what, when they sang when they weren't supposed to is when they were drumming? When drums became illegal? You know, it's South Carolina. It's when they decided to jump the broom when they weren't allowed to, quote-unquote, be married, but we're going to show you that we're married because we're going to put a broom down and jump over, I'm going to jump over this with my beloved. You know, it's, it's those choices that they made in the face of fuckery. If I can say, I don't know what I say. I'm it just it honestly, like, I wish I can't answer the question in a succinct way. But it just leaves me speechless, because I think about it a lot. Um, and sometimes I don't know what to say. And as someone who is a medium and you know, has deep connection to my ancestors, who here's my ancestors, I know that a lot of answers that are with me and walk with me are still very much traumatized by relationships, by sex. By what it means to be, It's a lot of my women ancestors, a woman, you know, how they're supposed to show up as women. And I'm the one that's holding a lot of that work to even teach them that things that they experienced weren't right. Or even violated their consent. So it's a lot. Yeah, that's I don't know. I don't even know if I answered the question. But
Ev'Yan Whitney
No, no, it's fine. Like I love that we're kind of riffing off this because I again, I feel like this is another thing that isn't talked about a lot like I don't see a lot of conversations about this aspect of, of, I guess sexual healing work within our ancestry. And like I think about this a lot. Sometimes when I sit at my altar and you know, so much of my own practice within my own self is about pleasure, and making sure that I, every single day I'm committed to this practice of centering the things that make me feel good of making sure that my body is not calloused or hardened. And like, like I had a moment actually today that that's coming up for me as I'm thinking about this of like, bringing a little plate of mangoes to my, to my ancestors. And like something so simple like that, that that seems like a simple act to me. But like, I don't know, if my ancestors were able to really be in a state of taking a bite of the mango and having the juice run down their chin, and like savoring the sweetness and the stickiness of that fruit. Because they were in fight or flight. They were in survival mode all the time. And also, they were sort of indoctrinated into believing that they didn't, that wasn't available to them. So I think about the own manifestation and actualization of my own pleasure and like, how that can be. That can be an intention and a freedom that I offer to my ancestors. But there's also that other piece of like, I almost feel like some of my ancestors don't really know what to do with me. They're like,
Juju Bae
Yeah, they probably don't.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, this is like, taking time to eat a mango, like sitting outside and like, feeling the breeze on your skin. Like we ain't got time for that. Like, we've got shit to do. So. Yeah, I don't I don't even know if I have a question there. But those are some things that I've been thinking about with that.
Juju Bae
Listen, that that is the that is ancestral work. That is the work. When you realize that your ancestors are not the saints in the sky. No, but they're actually a lot of them been through some shit and still hold on to the shit and then project the shit on to you. Right? Why are you eating mangoes? Why are you talking about you're sexually liberated? What are you talking about? We don't know about none of that. You need to go work. Get some money. Why are you resting? Why are you Why do you feel like you need that? Because they've never seen it. So it's like, they teach us but we teach them. We teach them I have ancestors who-- I was in a relationship with this guy some years ago, and it was violent. And I would at the time, I was still divining. So I'll reach out to my ancestors, I would throw my shells and pull my cards. And they were always like, stick with him. Stick with him. Stick with him. So I stayed with him, even though it was violent, and it was toxic. And eventually once I got out of that relationship, and I did my own healing, I went to my ancestors and said, Why did so many of you tell me to stay in that? And they're like, well, that's what we did. He provided didn't he? He, you know, took you out to eat. He made sure that the things were okay, quote, unquote, in the home. But your pleasure, the sex, I mean, that's just part of what it means to be with someone you just have to sometimes do whatever they say if they're providing, you know, monetarily. And so that was the moment that I realized, Oh, this is deep because y'all, I was in some shit cuz y'all said I could be in the shit. So sometimes the sensuality sexuality, they don't know. So when we embody that, when we decide to choose ourselves, when we decided choose pleasure, it literally it doesn't just shift us, it shifts like generations behind us. And forward. It's deep, deep healing work. So I appreciate that she brought that up. And I love to tell that story. Because I'm like, Yeah, they're not perfect. They're like, the stuff we're doing. They're like, wait a minute, what we could do we could have done that?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. Yeah, I think for me, I always and I don't believe this now, but I always had this suspicion or this thought that once my ancestors died, they're sort of like absolved of all of their, like, sin and, you know, their, their, their tethers to the world, and they're able to ascend to be like, these angelic creatures who, I mean, maybe that's true, but I don't know, like, in my experience, like I'm learning to hold the complexity and the messiness of my ancestors, and also like, not have it be this automatic thing that like, Oh, yeah, I'm sexually liberated. So y'all can be too or that that's something that you are familiar with, because I know so many of my ancestors, particularly those who identified as women, they have no concept of what this is.
Juju Bae
How would they? So it gives us a level of patience, grace, compassion, understanding that I wouldn't have gotten if I didn't try to establish a relationship with them, because then I get to project that to people, real people in the real world number like yeah, my ancestors ain't got it. So, understand why you are, where you are and how we feel what we feel and just the compassion that it's hard to be sexually liberated. It's work. It's not just like-- it's work.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, something that's coming up for me, as we're talking about this is thinking about body like, I've been really, really interested in embodiment somatics the way that trauma is stored in our body, and how, how those, how those traumatic experiences, I think it's called epigenetics, right? Where it's like, trauma is passed down through DNA. I'm thinking a lot about that. And I think this is total stream of consciousness for me, like I'm realizing that I'm not even answering any of or asking you the questions that I had been okay, and that's fine. Apparently, the spirits want us to talk about this, right. But yeah, I've been thinking about how one thing that happens for me in my own work, and I wonder if it happens for other black folks, too, is that there's a real focus on the harm, the trauma, slavery, all of these things that have happened to us. And it almost feels as though like, that's all there ever was, right? Like, that's all we've ever been is enslaved people. That's all we've ever been is traumatized. That's all we've ever been is like, disenfranchised. And I've been trying, and I don't I don't even really have a touchstone for this. And I wonder if you do, but I've been trying to, like, go back a little bit further and like, find those ancestors that I know, maybe it wasn't perfect, you know, because I don't think I mean, all human beings are flawed in some capacity, but maybe where there was more choice. And there was more bodily autonomy, and there was more ability to eat a mango and have the mango be the sensual experience. So yeah, I wonder. I wonder if like, that's come up for you at all. As you know, we're having this discussion about sensuality and embodiment.
Juju Bae
I love that you said that, because I think sometimes we get so understandably, you know, wrapped in our trauma stories, which are stories that should be told. And I think there's so many other stories, there's so many of the stories of our ancestors, having good sex, having multiple partners, having you know, I learned that I have ancestors who they had a house in Baltimore, in West Baltimore, and they used to play cards every weekend, and everyone from the city used to come. They used to drink, they used to smoke, they used to gamble, people would have sex who they wanted to have sex with upstairs. They just was turned up. And I'm like the audacity of them to have this space in West Baltimore City where they really couldn't do the quote-unquote, couldn't do any of these things. But they decided no, we're gonna have liquor, we're gonna sell it, you know, my ancestors was selling liquor out the houses. Playing cards and gambling and running numbers on the horses, you know, like they were doing and having sex. And my grandmother, who's a very, like, you know, Southern belle, Christian woman never let some of my other family members and my father and her children, you know, go there because like, oh, they're doing those things. But I'm like those are my Auntie's, like running it, my Auntie's, we're running that. And just even thinking about that was just a few generations back, and even pre colonialism, etc. There's so many examples of just how we did what we wanted to do, because we were embodied people. And we still are embodied people. And we listen to our bodies. And we pay attention to what it's saying to us. Even though so many people tell us not to. So, I love the idea of uplifting stories of Yes, there was a lot of trauma. Yes, there was a lot of pain that cannot be denied. And people still enjoyed themselves. We have always, black people, particularly, have always enjoyed themselves amidst pain and trauma. We can see that today. We still laugh, we still joke, we still shake our ass, we still dance, we still fuck, we still do all of these things. When we think about it, quote, unquote, we shouldn't be doing any of those things because of what we've experienced and what we do experienced. And yet we still do so that talks about just the innate sensuality the innate embodiment that we already carry. And I try to live in that all the time. Because we're so much more than that pain and trauma. I appreciate that question.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, the word resilient is coming up for me. And I've been thinking about resiliency not as like, Oh, you're so strong, but the fortitude and the foundation that we have in our own beings. And so that is also Yes. And that's fortified by our ancestors and the spiritual beings that are protecting us. Like, I think that there's something to be, I don't know, honored or thought about when it comes to, to that resiliency and like how, how do we, how do we honor our innate resiliency? You know, like, what does that look like? Yeah, that's a sure that's a question that I can ask you. Like, it just came up. But like, that is a question.
Juju Bae
Good question. And I don't have an answer, but it's making me think when I go to my altar to talk to my ancestors, maybe I should, like, reach out specifically to those ancestors who had the audacity to be embodied, ya know, amidst their pain and trauma. The audacity of the ancestors who were fucking you know, in West Baltimore who wanted to, after they, you know, gambled, did whatever they wanted to do. Like what-- Creating a more intentional relationship with those spirits is not something that I have done, but your questions are making me want to go to my altar after this and be like, I want to talk to y'all. Show me. Teach me. Yeah,
Ev'Yan Whitney
I love this. I actually so I know that because you're a bad bitch witch. I would love since we're talking. I mean, we're getting really deep into, you know, intergenerational trauma, but also intergenerational joy. That like, I feel that you know, isn't talked about a lot or celebrated and so I have like a two-part question. One, I would love to know, like, what are some ways that we can sort of, or some practices, rituals, whatever to like shake loose any gunk that is attached to our bodies, or sexuality or sensuality, so that we can get to that space of resiliency, or that we can get to a place of accessing joy and pleasure and sexual autonomy? And then I have another question, but I'll ask that later.
Juju Bae
Okay, so far, when I say like, of course, I always talk about ancestors and building your altar, or just finding ways to connect with the people that you come from. The people before you. Connecting with the honorable people before you. The people who did embody their sexuality, the people who have things to tell you and teach you and show you that will be beneficial to your life. And that can be through building an altar, but that also can be through just creating a quiet space and be like Hi, I would like to reach out to my ancestors who were loving and sex-positive or whatever. And they'll come, they always come regardless of how you think they'll come they will always come. Um, so I will say that, number one as a way to release the gunk, they'll show you they'll teach you they'll show up in dreams, they'll do it. Second thing I'll say is sex magic, which helped me. Now I don't engage in sex magic as much as I used to. But basically sex magic is just the process of like, setting intention and ritualizing sex whether it's sex, with yourself, sex with somebody else. But it's setting an intention behind whatever you're doing. Whether you orgasm or not, I typically go to orgasm with my sex magic but-- So you will set your intention do whatever you have to do to feel good. And when you orgasm, you're sort of imagining some type of manifestation or you're imagining things being released from you so a lot of the sexual magic that I did you know, people talk about like magic. They're like, Oh, yeah, you can have sex when you orgasm. Imagine you know, having $10,000 like yeah, that's cool. You can do that. I like to imagine my sexual shame. Being released from my body. I like to imagine while I'm masturbating as someone who was told masturbating was evil. That when I met spending the next time I masturbate, I'll feel less shameful about it. That's what I'm going to feel when I'm orgasm. That's the idea that's gonna pop in my head when to orgasm.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Can I pause you first? Yeah, yeah, cuz like, I'm so glad we got on the sex magic thing because that was like, a topic that I wanted to discuss with you. I'm really, really happy to hear you talk about sex magic, not from a place of like manifesting a million dollars or like getting the job that you want or the partner that you want, but like using orgasm using sexual energy to cleanse. Like to cleanse you, to release things or to set new intentions call in new intentions to your sexuality. I love that and I like I love that you brought that into this space because I think that, that is the work that we need to be doing. I mean, I'm not saying that nobody like nobody should be having these goals to manifest a million dollars like, have your dreams but I think we tend to bypass the healing work that needs to be done in favor of these glamorous sparkly visions that we have for ourselves. It's it should be both/and.
Juju Bae
yeah, that's mostly what I use my sex magic for. It's really not a lot of calling in big glamorous things, I do other things for that. But sometimes to even believe that I'm worth some of the glamorous things I have to let go of shame so I have to have some type of ritual to let go of that to even make room for all the other glorious things that I think that deserve and do deserve. So sex magic for sure. I had another thing, but it slipped my mind.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh shit probably because I interrupted you.
Juju Bae
It's okay. It'll come back if it was meant for me to say.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah, um okay, so one thing this is kind of a silly question. I feel you might have answered this before and another podcast that I was listening to you on for talking about ancestors here and we're talking about sex. And you know, how do you create those boundaries? Or maybe it's okay for the ancestors to be in the room or have their-- like sometimes Okay, I'll just speak very personally sometimes for me because I was raised conservative Christian and so I was told like when you masturbate imagine that God is watching you are Jesus is in the corner watching and not from like a kinky place but more so he's like, waving his finger like-- So like, when I think about this stuff with ancestors like that immediately comes to mind because that's just the politic. And so one thing that I've been trying to do is like, back to talking about what we were talking about earlier, which is like inviting my ancestors into this process of sexual liberation and sensuality. And having them get to witness what it looks like to embody that sexual agency. And like not from a place of like, you don't have to sexualize me but I do want for you to see and understand like, this is a person who is prioritizing themselves. This is a person who is prioritizing their sexuality. Yeah, I wonder how you deal with the ancestors and your sex magic practice.
Juju Bae
Um, funny enough, I don't be thinking about them if I'm having sex, I'm not thinking about them. Like I just don't um but I totally understand you know, having been someone raised you know, Christian and kind of strict Christian and I was raised thinking masturbation was evil so I have other things that pop up not so much that but you know, when you think about it, like our ancestors were getting it in.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, that's right.
Juju Bae
That's why we're here because someone got it in and before them someone got in and before them someone got it in. And I also know that my sexual appetite let's call it that is because of someone that I come from. It's because one of my ancestors or a parent of mine also had sexual appetite. Also wanted to be beautiful. Also loved sex, also wanted to be sensual also wanted to be in their body. Like I don't have these things just because I have them because I'm so special and unique, which I am, but I'm also made up of a lot of other people and their DNA that has been passed down. So I don't even imagine that my ancestors would see me as like, Oh, you know, oh, you're doing too much. It's like no, that's one of y'all. I got it from somewhere. One of y'all made me like this.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yes, I love that. I love kind of being like, Okay, if y'all are gonna, like, let's be real, you know, like, y'all did the same thing.
Juju Bae
You made me.
Ev'Yan Whitney
that's such a good point. Yeah, I've heard some other people be like okay, so you get connected with your ancestors. So does that mean that they watch you when you're fucking and I'm like, Well, I guess maybe they can, but they could. They may see you. Yeah, for me. I'm just like, y'all are welcome to stay if you want, like, that's fine as long as you know what it is like I'm not trying to titillate you I'm just I want you to see me and to experience what it's like for someone to be sexually free or like in the realm of sexual freedom that perhaps they didn't get a chance to experience?
Juju Bae
Exactly. And it's so interesting that we jump to when you think about ancestors or having an altar in your room, like, oh, they're looking at me it's like where do we get that from? Why is that our first thought? I think that's something that we have to question for ourselves around us. What is that about? Why do we jump to when we think about connection with our ancestors and love that they're watching us have sex? You know, that's, that's some other shit. That might not be yours that might not be ours, and maybe some things to unlearn a question.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I like that gentle dragging that you just gave me. I appreciate that. Okay, so sex magic is some ways to like release and to create a space for some of the good energy and like the good healing vibes of sexuality and embodiment. I wonder if there's, I guess the second part of my question was like, what are some rituals or practices that we can do that is celebratory of our sexuality. That is very much like-- and I imagine sex magic could be in there as well. You know, having sex magic with the intention of like, you know, having that intention of celebration and joy and pleasure and stuff like that. But yeah, I wonder what's coming up for you around that.
Juju Bae
I was telling you earlier, I don't know if it was before we were recording but words of affirmation is like my love language. So I do very well with affirmations. I do very well with writing things down. I do very well with looking myself in the mirror, excuse me, and talking to myself, and giving myself you know, positive affirmation. So I would suggest that too, if that's a good thing for you, just looking at your body, celebrating your body. Complementing your own body. Putting, you know, the post-it notes, I know, that doesn't work for everybody, but that does work. Yeah, putting things around your house that you need to see or read about yourself. Or parts of the mirror that you find yourself always critique if you have a full-body mirror, if you always are critiquing your stomach, you can put a poster right where your stomach would lie on your mirror and have it read something positive. And honestly, that just came to mind.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I love that.
Juju Bae
But that's an idea. So I love words, reading words, saying things to myself. Like you said, sex magic could be a part of that. Like I said earlier, asking your ancestors for help. In doing it, like you need help. So we can ask our spirits for how we can ask people in your everyday life for help. But really, like when I think about my ancestors and the embodiment, you know, the separation of spirit and body in our mind is really a newer concept. Like, that's not something that's indigenous at all. You know, it was all connected, you need the body, you need the spirit, you need the mind it all is one. So I think even just questioning ourselves when we try to break it up as, it's hard to explain, but we try to break it up as being separate.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Like compartmentalizing it?
Juju Bae
Right. That's not it, you know, ancestrally so our bloodlines, we've been not compartmentalizing it longer than we have been. Um, so I think there's something in trying to connect with that idea. Um, so everything that we do, we say we think is part of the body, it also is part of the spirit. And it is a spiritual act, and it's an embodiment because that's, that's what we know. That's, that's, that's like kind of a core. Um, so I think it's always kind of being in a state of questioning, like, why am I trying to separate all of these things as if they're not one? Because to me, they are. Ancestrally indigenously, they are.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's right. That's right. I'm thinking about the word Soma and how like Soma is, is meant to sort of encompass not just the body but like the body, the mind the emotions, the sensations, like seeing yourself as not just like, Okay, I have a mind and I have thoughts and I have emotions and their feelings, and then my body is like, seeing it all in this very holistic way. And also healing from that place too. So like, I've been thinking a lot about how popular talk therapy is, and, and how amazing it is to talk about your feelings and to talk about experiences that have happened that have been unsavory. But I've also been thinking about like, it's not just our minds our thinking minds that become traumatized, like our bodies are also at play. Our sensations are also at play the way we experience taking up space in a room like how we shrink our like energetic aura is also at play. And so I think a lot about or at least I've been trying to sort of, I don't want to say retrain because those are the colonisers words. I'll say, I've been trying to be more intentional about seeing my own healing process as like, full whole being not just Okay, I've got a therapist to talk about my trauma, and that that does enough. It's like, okay, but what if, what about my body? And what about my emotions? And what about my inner child? Like, there's so many pieces that get involved with this kind of work.
Juju Bae
You are making me think about so many things. I feel like spirit is talking through you this whole time. And
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh well, thanks. Wow.
Juju Bae
That's powerful. I don't have anything to say. But like, yes, yes.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Well, another thing that was coming up for me when I was thinking, when I asked you that question about, like, what can you do to bring in more celebratory pleasurable energy into your life is like, creating an altar to your sexuality, or creating an altar to like, to celebrate your body. I love the idea of that I used to when I was in sessions with people, I would give them an exercise to do that, like create an altar to your sensuality. And like put it in a place where like, not in the closet, but like, front and center in a room where you can see it, put a mirror on there, affirmations, beautiful stones, photographs of yourself, and really just like, sit in front of that altar and like, you know, call that being in, call that energy in which I think I might have to do that, because I don't have one of those.
Juju Bae
Yes, no, that's so good. And it's funny you say that I've never done that. But I remember when I was giving readings to people, I've told people in readings to do that. So I've had people's spirits and ancestors say they need to create it create an altar for themselves, for their sexuality, for their higher selves, for whatever it is. So that's, I'm so glad you said that. Because yes, we don't have to just create altars for things that are outside of us. But we can create them for ourselves and go and sit and pray at us. And you know, and thank us and give offerings to the energy of you. You can do that. So I need to do that, honestly.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. I mean, a lot of ideas are coming to mind for me, like, you know, what would an altar to sensuality look like? I mean, it wouldn't be pictures of a flower it would be the flowers like it would be fragrant, you would hopefully be interactive with this altar, pick up the stones and like put them on your skin and smell flowers, like take out some honey and stick your finger and like really have it be tactile. Yes. Like I think that that that's another thing that I see happen and in my own workaround, like alters spirituality is that like, I kind of have my altars and like, Oh, don't touch it. It's like, it's a sacred place. No, we should be like picking shit up and interacting with it and tasting it. I mean, obviously with, you know, with the caveat, if it's, if it's for your ancestors, I don't know if they would like for you to be slobbering all over their food. But yeah, I think that I think that an altar to sensuality should be a sensual experience.
Juju Bae
I really, really love it. And I just think it would be so helpful to people who have just had so many unsavory experiences around the sexuality, or sensuality. Well, that just came to me it just would be. Yeah, that's good. That's good.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I think I'm gonna, I think I need to do this. I haven't done it. But I think I need to create an altar of myself or for myself, which I imagine this comes up for you like, being a diviner. You can give people all of these tools and rituals and tricks but it can be a little bit more difficult to like, implement them for yourself. It's that comes up for me a lot with my work
Juju Bae
Oh, extremely. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you what to do all day. But me yeah, I ain't bout to do that. But I know it's right.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, well, I feel I feel it on my spirit before we close to just ask if there's anything else that we haven't brought into this conversation today that feels like it wants to be expressed or explored. Yeah, I really feel like spirit has just been leading this conversation this whole time.
Juju Bae
There's so many different points where you were talking where my eyes were welling up. So I know spirit has been very present. And because of that, I'm like, you know what? I feel like, we've touched on so many things. I think just from taking them back to basics. I know sometimes when people are listening, they're like, wait a minute, you're still talking about spirits and ancestors and we didn't even go over like the basics of what it means to talk to people who are dead. Um, and I and I'm saying to this person, like I get that like it is different it is quote-unquote weird it is very woo-woo it's not something that you know, we've been taught to really dig deep into but you know, I think there's always just this part of us that we're like there's something more there's something else there's something I'm not fully tapping into. I don't know what it is, but it's something and I guarantee you it's probably something that has to do either with your ancestors or with your own spirit. It's probably spiritual work, because I feel like that is the area of work that's not talked about so much at particularly outside of Abrahamic lens. And so I would just encourage folks to just explore whatever that can mean if something today for ancestors pinged you it's probably that if it's something with the altar for your sensuality is probably that if it's sex magic, it's probably that going back to trusting our intuition.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I was just about to say this is all this is why sixth sense is an important aspect of sensuality. You can't just have the five senses like you have to--that Sixth Sense rounds at all out
Juju Bae
Yep. That's it. Trust all I can trust that that's that's being embodied. That's being sensual, trusting that trusting your knowing.
Ev'Yan Whitney
So many gems so much beauty and just profound like energy in this conversation. I thank you so much Juju, for showing up and chatting with me and going through all these like weird like, we meandered in some ways, like I said, I had a whole list of questions that I was going to ask you.
Juju Bae
I got the questions and we didn't talk about none of them and that's fine.
Ev'Yan Whitney
This was the episode. This was the conversation that we needed to have. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed every second of it.
Juju Bae
Me, too. I'm so grateful. Thank you. Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
So please, before we go, tell people where they can find you.
Juju Bae
Yes. So like I said, Before, I have a podcast called A Little Juju podcast. It's spelled out just how it sounds. And it's everywhere you can stream podcasts. I'm on Instagram @ItsJujuBae. I'm on Instagram also @ALittleJujupodcast for the podcast page. I'm on Twitter, I'll be talking shit on Twitter. I'm not always talking about spiritual things, because I'm a full embodied human. So it's, its spirituality, but also my everyday lives and why people be getting on my nerves like. What else do I have? I have some classes coming up soon. So yeah, I'm gonna be teaching a few things. So just follow me on Instagram and the site, you'll get that on my website. ItsJujuBae.com if you want some Reiki or to reach out to me through email, you can do all that to my website.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Beautiful. I want to give you like, a live review. You have done readings for me a few times. And those readings they were the first readings I've ever done when it came to seeking a medium talking to my ancestors and they were some of the most profound experiences I've ever had. And so I say all this to say like hire Juju listen to her work, support what she's doing because when I tell you this bitch is tapped in like it's and it's it's just it's so juicy. It's so beautiful. And we're so like, grateful to be able to enjoy the work that you do. So thank you for showing up.
Juju Bae
I receive it in the water. I receive it. Thank you.
Ev'Yan Whitney
You are so welcome. And thank you so much again for this beautiful conversation.
. . .
You know what I just thought of, as I was listening to this episode? I just remembered that it's spooky season, y'all. This is the time to honor our dead. The time where the veil is lifted between the physical realm and the spiritual realm. It's also Hoodoo Heritage Month. It totally wasn't my intention to share this conversation during the month of October. Usually when it comes to publishing these episodes, I do it really intuitively. Like I think about what the interviews I did contained, and I sort of feel out which ones feel like they want to be released when they do and I don't know I'm just kind of freaking out a bit in the best way possible about how divinely timed this episode is. Which again, speaks to the power, the sensuality, and the magic of our intuition.
But anyway, I hope that you enjoyed this discussion. I know I did. I have listened to this conversation many, many times. And I always glean a new gem of wisdom. And I thank Juju, for sharing herself with us. And I also thank her ancestors for bringing her to us as well. In terms of our sensual practice this week, one thing that I'm feeling into right now is remembering that when I was writing my book, sensual self, I had my ancestors heavy, on my mind. I actually feel like they were with me throughout the entire process of me creating the content of the book. And I couldn't stop thinking about how radical it is, for me to be here, to be in this body, to be able to have the time and the space, and the luxury of feeling into my body, and defining what pleasure means to me.
So much of my book involves questions that are designed to help you connect to yourself in a deep way. And with every prompt that I wrote, with every practice that I conjured up, I kept thinking about how much of a privilege it is to do this work, to be able to sit and contemplate these themes of pleasure, and sensuality. And I just found myself feeling so grateful that I get to do this work. As well as really curious about how my ancestors might have answered these prompts that I was writing, how they might have approached this work of sensuality, of body mindfulness, of somatic awareness, and also like this prioritization of pleasure, like what did that look like for them?
So with that, I wanted to offer a practice for you to explore as well, which looks like you sitting down and thinking about your ancestors, thinking about the ways they experienced pleasure, or didn't, and then inviting them to explore pleasure through you. Maybe that looks like writing to them, or speaking aloud to them at your ancestral altar, and asking them some questions about pleasure, and sexuality, and agency with their body. Like what wisdom do our ancestors have for us? And what can we teach them as well?
And of course, if this doesn't resonate, if you're not feeling this vague, witchy choose your own intuitive adventure and talk to your dead folks practice. I understand. You are so welcome to take one of the others that was mentioned in this episode that was mentioned in this episode by Juju, like creating an altar to your sensuality. But I do hope that you'll do something, anything to give honor and give acknowledgment to the folks who came before you who are with you right now, guiding your steps, keeping you safe, loving you and feeling so proud of you. Even if it's something small, please thank your ancestors today.
. . .
Sensual Self is created and hosted by me, Ev'Yan Whitney. It is edited and produced by Tribble. Music is by Melodiesinfonie from his song, Just Healing. For everything you want to know about this podcast, including previous episodes, show notes, transcripts, and resources. Go to evyanwhitney.com/podcasts. You can also follow the show on Instagram @sensual.self.
If you have a moment, I would love it if you rated and reviewed this podcast. It helps others find the show and as a result, it helps them uncover their sensual self. As for me, I'm on Instagram @EvYan.Whitney, and if you want to know more about me and my work, go to evYanwhitney.com.
And please check out my book, Sensual Self: Prompts and Practices for Getting in Touch With Your Sensual Body to preorder go to evyanwhitney.com/sensualself. Thanks so much for being here and for creating the space for yourself. I'll see you in the next one.