Episode 49: How We’re Living Apart Together (with Jonathan Mead)
[ INTRO WITH EV’YAN ]
Hey everyone, I'm Ev'Yan Whitney. And this is The Sexually Liberated Woman. As a continuation of what was discussed in the last episode, I brought my partner and husband Jonathan mead on to the podcast today to talk a little bit more about our LAT relationship. And LAT stands for living apart together if you're unfamiliar. Today we are discussing how transitioning this relationship has been for us both, since we've been doing it for almost three months. My how time has flown and simultaneously dragged at the same time.
Both Jonathan and I got a lot of questions about our choice to live separately. And many of those questions had to do with Jonathan. Like, how does he feel about all of this? Was he hurt when I brought up that I wanted to live apart? Did he even want to do this? Much of the last episode was focused on my story and the things I was processing as I came to terms with making this decision. So in this conversation, you'll get to hear his side of things. You'll get to hear how he feels about living apart together, and also some of the things we've been experiencing and learning about ourselves during this intentional time apart. Also, if you haven't listened to Episode 48 yet, definitely do so because a lot of what we talked about here references what was revealed in that episode.
Now, this isn't the first time my man's been on my podcast. He's been on to talk about how my sexual awakening impacted him, which is Episode Four. He's been on to talk about masculine feminine polarity, which is in Episode Five. And honestly, that desperately needs an update because a lot of my thoughts and feelings on that topic have changed since then. Oh, and he's also been on to talk about our open relationship, which is Episode 11. So it's been a minute since he's been on and because of that, I wanted to take a quick moment to introduce him to all of you.
Ah, okay, what do I say about Jonathan Mead? Well, apart from being my lover and companion of 13 plus years, Jonathan is also an incredible movement, teacher and coach. Hoo within his own work helps people become more free and strong in their bodies so that they can live and feel better. He's got a podcast of his own called physical freedom. And I just so happened to be on episode 11, talking all about how movement and embodiment intersects with sexuality and sensuality. I talk a lot about my favorite practices that helped me get into my sensual body. And Jonathan also flexes his own knowledge as someone who has studied the body and human movement for over a decade. It's a great conversation. It's actually the first time Jonathan has interviewed me, which was a real treat, and you can listen to that episode right now. Just search for Physical Freedom wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you want to learn more about Jonathan and his incredible work—and I'm biased obviously because he's my man, but his work Really is incredible—check him out on Instagram @jonathanmead, or by going to his website uncagedhuman.com. I'll also put all of this info in the show notes for you to check it out later.
As for us, as for our relationship with each other and what we've been exploring in this new phase of partnership, let's just get right into it. Here's a conversation we had over the weekend actually where we processed and did a little check in about our decision to live apart together. Enjoy!
[ INTERVIEW WITH JONATHAN ]
Ev'Yan Whitney
Hi, honey.
Jonathan Mead
Hi.
Ev'Yan Whitney
How are you?
Jonathan Mead
I am doing good. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a little while.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, me too. I mean, I I feel we've been talking about this a lot on our own, but I feel like the podcast coming out, at least for me has brought up some some questions and just the ability to want to check in, you know, so yeah, it's it's kind of weird to be doing this. I don't know why I feel a little awkward about it. But I mean, you know, it is.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I mean, it's something that's a little bit unconventional in the first place, right. So I think maybe there's a little bit of, I don't know, self consciousness around it. Yeah, certainly not something I hear people do all the time.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I was pretty shocked by the response that we got with the episode. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was kind of bracing myself for people to be like, what is this bullshit like? I don't know. This is you know, but at least for me on my side I got a lot of people who were not just curious about this but also just felt such a resonance to my story and our relationship and and how they themselves had pondered what it would look like for them to live apart or how they have like introduced le t as an option for their relationship which was really cool. And I know that you got a lot of people who also reached out wanting to just like hear what you have to say about it, right?
Jonathan Mead
Right. Yeah. Which you know, I think I jokingly said to you like this is, this is not what I do. This is Ev'Yan's podcast, you know. I think the way you know we navigate things online is a little bit different. Sometimes I do open up and share quite a bit of stuff but I tend to keep my like Instagram and things on my podcast like a little bit more kind of about the work and stuff like that. Whereas work for you is so much of your life. And that was funny just seeing some of the comments people asking me about things and I'm like, Hey, I'm not about to have a whole conversation with you about this. Yeah, but hey, good news. I've been and I are recording a podcast about this. So you should probably just check that out.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, when you told me that people were reaching out like some of my people were reaching out to you being like, "So what's your take on this?" I thought that that was really funny because you I would say that out of the two of us, I feel like you're a little bit more private about our relationship and yeah, it was funny for me in my brain to think about you receiving those messages and being like, this isn't this isn't my wheelhouse.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, that was pretty funny.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I just, I also just kind of want to use this as a check in point for for us because I mean, we've been doing this for almost three months. And the circumstances are much different than we originally planned. I mean, obviously the Coronavirus is a thing that we did not plan for and while it hasn't really changed the locations of where we're at—like it hasn't changed the logistics of it—it has changed things emotionally, at least for me. And yeah, I don't know. Maybe that would be a great way to just like, get into it. Like, how has this Coronavirus affected or shifted things? Yeah.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I mean, it's been hard. It's a lot less sex than I thought we were gonna have. You know, that's, that's been its own its own challenge, but I think we both had our own sort of ideas at least, you know, in some ways I think we both were kind of going into it like, not sure exactly what to expect because we don't have any experience in doing this kind of thing. You know, before but we had some ideas about what it was going to be like but then of course, you know, as you have your ideas, life happens the neither one of us could have predicted there be something kind of of this magnitude happening right now and, you know, impacts you know, both of us on so many levels, right. Like we're not able to visit each other and stuff like that. But then also just our, our ability to, you know, take up this space in a way where we're also—it's like we're distancing but then there's, I think there's this pull to come closer together as well during this time, which has been in some ways I feel like different maybe than what we expected, because we're, at least from my perspective, kind of doing this in a lot of ways to explore our own selves more and, you know, have that time for ourselves, which I feel like we've been doing, but it's just been different right than we originally maybe anticipated.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I mean, I think I should say here for folks listening too because I'm sure they heard you say, well, definitely having a lot less sex and it's like, Well, isn't that what you're signing up for in terms of an LAT, but I think that we originally We plan to see each other at least once a month, at the very, very least. And the fact is, is that because of this global pandemic that's happening. We haven't seen each other since February. And I mean, we've been talking to each other every single day, but we haven't had any physical contact. And that makes things difficult. And also, you know, what you bring up about how, I mean, I remember when we really started talking about this and looking at the logistics of this, we both kind of said, you know, maybe it would be nice for us to like, not talk to each other for like, three weeks, you know, like to really give ourselves that space. And, yeah, all of that stuff has kind of flown out the window because, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty in the air. I know my anxiety has been fluctuating throughout this process. And I know that you've been wondering and worrying about me and vice versa. So yeah, I think t he dynamic has definitely changed in that regard.
Jonathan Mead
Right. Yeah, it's such a curveball, you know, and it has its own ripples right, throughout every other area of our life. That, you know, of course, we could talk about that part, but then, you know, just the, the uncertainty and the anxiety and, you know, not being sure what's going to happen and not even not being sure like how to plan for anything either. Because, you know, it's something where we don't know when we are going to be able to see each other again, that's been challenging in its own way. And yeah, it's, it's been hard.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, cuz I mean, at least we could point to a calendar and say okay in seven days, in two weeks, I'm going to see my man and like, right now it's one big question mark. This could go on for another month you know? And I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought many many times that I'm just going to jump on a plane or I'm just gonna have you jump on a plane like, Coronavirus be damned. But you know, we both want to be responsible and respectful of the stay at home ordinances and yeah, I've missed the shit out of you. I really miss you a lot.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. I miss you lot as well. And this is one of the hardest things like, I feel like I've ever done. And we were talking before this, too, about how like, Hey, would you have still done this or said yes. So this living apart thing, if we knew that the Coronavirus was gonna happen—in some ways, like it's a good thing we did before this because maybe we never would have done it. You know?
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yea, if I would have known that this was coming I wouldn't have done this. I wouldn't have done it. I would have maybe stayed in Portland. I probably would have stayed in Portland longer. So, in some ways, it's like a blessing that it happened when it did, but also it just, it's, it sucks. It's bittersweet, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, but we've learned a lot. I know I've learned a lot through this process.
Ev'Yan Whitney
What have you learned?
Jonathan Mead
Well, I've learned a lot about who I am. You know, as my own individual. I think that when you are with someone for as long as we've been together, over 13 years, you become pretty enmeshed in that other person and a lot of your sense of self and your identity comes from being a partner. And the ways that you show up for that person, like even something as simple as, I'm going to clean my house for me, you know, not because like, Oh, I want to make sure that I'm like, you know, keeping the house nice because like, it's gonna make Ev'Yan happy or I don't want her—like she's stressed or she's doing all these other things, so I want to, like, do these things to take care of her. Which can be its own beautiful thing, but you know, getting to know myself and doing things for myself has been really interesting. And then also realizing, like the ways that I kinda am not happy with who I am sometimes. And before I could blame that on you, you know, I could be like, "God, Ev'Yan's in the mood" and that's why I have this response right now. Like, that's why I feel the way I do and then you're not there. And I'm like, these same things keep happening. And I'm like, that's actually just you.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. It's like you're finding that you are responsible for your own experience, you know, like, and that it's not, it's not dependent upon someone else. Because I've latched on to that to, you know, thinking that some of the things that I don't like about myself have been activated because of an of conversation that you and I have had or something that you did might have activated something in me, you know, it's really easy. to point to outside, like external things, but like when you're all by yourself when you're sitting all alone in your own apartment, and you have no one else to blame but yourself, it's like, oh, maybe I'm the problem.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Like maybe I'm the source of my suffering.
Jonathan Mead
Right. And that's uncomfortable as fuck. Realizing that and then being like, Okay, well, what do I do? And I mean, for me, it's, it's been a good invitation in practicing how I want to be with myself and how I want to meet myself. Yeah, you know, how do I what kind of energy do I want to hold myself with? And it's with compassion, it's with kindness. It's with, you know, standing in my truth and, and those things so has been a positive from it too. Yeah, it's getting getting more clarity around that. Because I mean, yeah, and then we're living apart, right. And then that's exacerbated by the quarantine and social distance. So it's like extra time, to be with yourself. So you can't distract yourself with social things right now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, you can't run from yourself. Like there's literally nowhere to run like, you know, you have to be inside.
Ev'Yan Whitney
So actually want to ask, because one of the questions that I got a lot from people was how does Jonathan feel about all this? Because when I rolled this episode out, I focused a lot on my perspective and my story which was intentional. Your story is not my story to tell. And a lot of people were like, okay, all this is great, but like, How did Jonathan feel about this? Because it wasn't your idea. It was really facilitated and instigated by me. So yeah. How do you feel about all of this? That I put us into, I got us into this mess?
Jonathan Mead
I mean, at first, it was pretty scary for me and it was hard. You know, it was hard to believe that the reasons that you're doing it or purely just those reasons of wanting, you know, time and space to explore yourself and there wasn't something more about your happiness in our relationship or your desire to be committed to our relationship and that was hard for me. It was really hard for while and then over time, you know, as we're talking about, okay, here's how we're going to navigate this. And here's what we're going to do if this comes up and, you know, all those things. And I was able to still see that effort and sincerity on your part that's kind of quieted for me. And I was able to start to really open myself up to Okay, well, what could this time mean for me? You know, I think one of the things that—this is something I think that's been a constant and our relationship is I am usually the one to kind of shake things up or you know, instigate—let's try different things. That could be something as simple as a diet or it could be, you know, non monogamy are or whatever. I've been that person. So I'm kind of used to that. And used to that adaptability that comes along with that. So it was actually kind of nice to have you instigate something. And then me get to be like, Oh, cool. I like this. I like changes. I like trying different things and experiments. And I don't have to try to convince you, Hey, let's get on board. It was like, Whoa, okay.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. You're like, you're the mover and shaker in our relationship. Like, I'm such an earth sign—
Ev'Yan Whitney
I mean, yeah, yeah. Historically. That might be changing. But I mean, in terms of our relationship, I've always been very grounded, very traditional. Like when I have a set of traditions, I stick to them. And so, traditionally, you've always been the one that has shaken things up has like thrown wrenches in plans and have made us both, like adapt and rethink the ways that we show up not just in our relationship but in the world as a whole. And so being in this position, this new position where I'm the one that's like, bringing up the change and shaking the foundations of our relationship that was interesting. I don't want I don't like this part. Like I I would love to know I don't I'm like this is this was fun. This was a fun run, but like, I think that this is the last major foundation-shaking decision I'm going to make in our relationship. I'm going to give that crown back to you.
Jonathan Mead
Historically.
Jonathan Mead
Well, I appreciate that. You followed your truth and, you know, took a big risk to instigate this because it is risky. Maybe I didn't want to do this and then that could have created a rift between us.
Ev'Yan Whitney
You know, what's crazy is that like, I never even crossed my mind that you would say No. And I don't know what that means. Like, I just I don't know, if I was just in my own, you know, frame of mind and I was just so set on doing this. I don't I really can't pinpoint that. But it never crossed my mind that I would bring this to you and you would be like, "Nah, I'm not really interested. Let's break up then because that's not the kind of relationship that I want to have." Which is interesting. You could have done that. You could have easily done that. Why didn't you do that? I'm curious about that.
Jonathan Mead
I mean, well, I didn't want to break up with you. So that was the reason.
Ev'Yan Whitney
That's a good reason!
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I think so. I think it's a good reason. And I mean, this has been a really—despite all of the stuff going on and all the challenges—it has been a really rewarding experience for me and I have really appreciated having this time for myself and to prioritize myself and to have the space to just get to know me again. And then like, I believe that when we come back together, it can be from a place of not, Hey, let's Let's keep kind of continuing everything that we set in motion from the first time we met, you know, but to create a new chapter.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Right, because I think the way that we were going, we were kind of in our own little template, you know, and I think—
Jonathan Mead
We were comfortable.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, it was comfortable. We got very comfortable with that. And there was nothing wrong with it.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. Comfort is nice sometimes, you know, and I appreciate comfort as well. But like, sometimes it's also nice to, like experience a little bit of uncertainty and, you know, trying something new. If you just go to the same, you know, Thai restaurant and you get your pad thai with veggies and no eggs day after day, it's like, kind of boring.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. You mentioned uncertainty. And that was a question that came up from people who listened to our last episode. You know, someone was asking, like, how do you find peace with that uncertainty? Like how are we finding peace with that uncertainty? Because I mean, it's possible that at the end of this sort of time limit that we've given ourselves to live apart, we may decide that we don't want to be together anymore. Or that, you know, one of us wants to keep going and the other one doesn't, you know? I've been thinking about that, obviously, a lot especially because of the Coronavirus and just the shutdown of the world has really dampened my own visions of what this was going to look like for me. Like I was going to jump into work, I was going to be traveling a lot because I had a lot of gigs that I was really looking forward to. I know that you were going to be doing the same. And while I feel like I'm able to make the most of this experience, it also feels like I'm kind of getting the short end of the stick with that. And yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I think you are because I think out of this, I was kind of desiring this more internal experience and like, focusing more on my internal self and work and projects and things like that and going into a bunker which is kind of like what this whole thing is, is kind of forcing people to do. Whereas I think you are so excited to be in LA and like frolicking in the sun and like, meeting with friends and like going out for coffee. You know, like doing more stuff like—I'm sure like internal stuff too, you know. But you were pretty excited about that stuff.
Ev'Yan Whitney
How are you finding peace with the uncertainty in this moment?
Jonathan Mead
I mean, I think that for me, it really comes down to the ultimate kind of uncertainty and being at peace with death at peace with you know, there's so much of life that I I can't control and that's something that's always kept our relationship really alive and fresh for me is keeping that perspective of realizing like, I could die tomorrow you could die. You never know. And I'm gonna appreciate the fuck out of this while it's here. And even just thinking about it right now, it makes me even more appreciate this conversation that we're having right now. And, you know, that's part of how I deal with the uncertainty. I guess, accepting it, accepting that that's the ultimate uncertainty. And God it's a miracle that I'm with you. It's a miracle that I'm alive right now. Yeah, I don't understand it. It's a mystery. But I'm appreciating and enjoying it right here right now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, I think that's been one of the things that I have been learning about myself through this. Not even just through this LAT experience, but also, you know, being on lockdown, and not really knowing when that lockdown is going to end is that like, I have some serious control issues. And there's a peace in some ways in saying I'm not in control, like my job, the only job that I have is to enjoy every single moment of my existence, and to just trust that everything is going to work out in the highest good for everyone. And I think that's the thing that I've been trying to focus on throughout experience of living apart with you that like, sure it's possible that we could meet in August or September whenever and say, You know what, this was a good run, we had a great time. And this is this is where our paths and whatever that may happen, but I don't, if that does, like, I want to squeeze every ounce of joy and love and pleasure and companionship and intimacy with you as possible, you know, and at the same time, recognizing that I don't have control, also recognizing that there are things that I do have control over which is I want to fucking be with you, you know. I can't control your response. You know, I can't control you coming to me and being like, I'm not into this anymore. But I can control at least like my own intention and my intention is to to be with you, because I love being with you. I love being in relationship with you. And that's something that I've been coming back to throughout this time being apart from you is that like, I love who I am alone, but I also deeply, deeply love who I am when I'm with you. And yeah, I love being in relationship with you. I don't want to not be in a relationship with you, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. I feel the same way. I mean, it's like there's so many things I can't control. You know, of course, I can control you, I can't control happens in the world. I can't control necessarily if one of us got sick or in an accident or, you know, any number of different things could happen. But what I do now is I also want to be with you and the there's no one else I'd rather be with. And I've loved you since the moment you know, we first met and if anything has stayed constant with me, you know, throughout this whole experience is yes, I value my autonomy and freedom and I appreciate that so much and actually, this experience made me realize how I want to intentionally create more space for that in the future and create more structure around that so I can have that more. But to me, that's only going to make me come back loving and appreciating you more. And you know, I guess the other thing I was going to say is that something that's been pretty constant since I met you is I've always, you know, even in spite of our kind of explorations and non monogamy and different unconventional ways of being relationship—living apart together now—I've always still maintain that hopeless romantic part of myself that wants to be like, 95 years old we die in the same bed together—
Ev'Yan Whitney
Bitch I'm going to be dying at 120, so.
Jonathan Mead
Cool. Sounds great. Even better. We'll be like, unrecognizable. Turning into like, I don't know—
Ev'Yan Whitney
Raisins! No, that's not true because black don't crack and when I'm 127 I'm going to look like 75. So, you know, catch up.
Jonathan Mead
I just need a lot of moisturizer. I'll like, live in a room full of shea butter.
Ev'Yan Whitney
[Laughs]
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh my gosh, you were making me emotional just now though, just hearing you talk about you being a hopeless romantic because I think that's one thing that I feel like this distance is shining a light on for me is that as you said, like I love my autonomy. I love my independence, but I also really love being your partner. There's so much joy my life is made fuller because of the experiences that we have together and the things that you teach me and the things that I teach you. You know, it's such a beautiful exchange and collaboration of partnership. And I love that. And it's been really fun actually to explore what that partnership can look like from a distance, you know, because I feel like I'm getting a chance to see you in a different light and to be reminded of your hopeless romantic-ness—where I don't think that I, I think that because we've been together for so long and got comfortable in our own routine, you know, I wasn't really paying attention to that stuff.
Ev'Yan Whitney
This is crazy. Just talking about it. Like, I have these moments, where I'm in my apartment in LA and I'm like, literally looking at the blue sky and trees all around me, and I'm just having this moment of, Wow, I'm here and Jonathan is not here, you know? And after so many months of thinking about this talking about it, it's it's still trips me out that like, we're doing it, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. It trips me out, as well.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I mean, in some ways, when we were talking about this six months ago, I wasn't sure if this was possible. I mean, I knew anything is possible, right? But I wasn't sure how this was going to work. And so to see it working the way that it's working, it's just it's a trip. It's so crazy.
Jonathan Mead
This literally started with an idea or a thought that you had in your brain.
Ev'Yan Whitney
A year ago.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. That's how it started. And now this has, you know, fundamentally changed the landscape of our lives. And I just want to celebrate you having that thought and saying yes to it and owning it. And that, you, through that, manifested this right now. That's huge.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh, thank you, man. I'm so emotional today. I've already cried twice. Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Jonathan Mead
I mean, especially as a black woman, taking those risks and kind of going through that evolution—that is uncomfortable. That takes a lot of courage. I'm really proud of you.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Thank you. I think about that a lot. As you know, one of my pilgrimages throughout this process was connecting more with with my spirituality connecting more with the land and my ancestors, because my people, like my family, my extended family, are from the LA area. And so being here in neighborhoods that I've been to with them and smelling the same air and seeing the same foliage that I grew up seeing, it's been a really beautiful experience. And also just thinking about the fact that I'm doing this and thinking about the many, many people in my lineage who wanted more freedom, you know, who wanted to say I need some time away from you—perhaps not quite this extreme, perhaps just for a day or a weekend—but just didn't get the opportunity to do that, didn't have the privilege of being able to do that. I've just been feeling so much gratitude and even some praise for my own ancestors from them being able to witness me living this, you know. Because through me they're getting this experience as well, you know? And yeah, it's quite radical in so many ways, but in particular for me being a black femme living on my own, able to sustain myself, with resilience and strength and tenacity, paying paying my own rent, you know, like this is big, it's really, really big and I appreciate you for giving me the space that I needed and wanted to experience this. To experience this feeling of like, every day I wake up and I'm like, Holy shit, Ev'Yan, you're here. You're doing it by yourself, you know?
Jonathan Mead
You're doing. I mean, it's radical in so many ways when you think about how many women and femmes that have wanted to do something like what you're doing—either in the past or so many right now—that couldn't or can't or afraid. Like, your example is a symbol of something that is possible. Yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah. I do want to just speak into the room, you know, just how much privilege we have to be able to do this because living apart together is not cheap. We essentially have two households. We have two separate utility bills. We have two separate rents, and I think that's one of the one of the bigger reasons why a lot of folks don't do this because they just can't afford it. You know, I mean, the other reasons are like, I don't know if my partner will allow me to or would be down for it or if our relationship could last in that sort of dynamic, but I mean, the money factor is a big one, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. The money part is huge. For sure.
Ev'Yan Whitney
One question that I got, too, was about family. And I would love for us to talk a little bit about how our families responded to this decision. I feel like your family didn't really have all that much to say as much as my family did. My mom had a lot to say about this.
Jonathan Mead
Your mom was freaking out.
Ev'Yan Whitney
She's, she's still. She's still freaking out.
Jonathan Mead
My family, my mom was concerned but she kind of got it, I guess. My sisters were pretty supportive and was like, "Cool, sounds like justt another one of the, you know, unconventional things that you would do. Is that it?!"
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, your family was pretty chill. They were just like, Okay, that's cool. Is everything cool? Everything's cool. Okay, great. We support you.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, your mom. . .
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, my mom. So my sister was very, very curious and you know, she asked a lot of questions, but I think ultimately, I feel like I am to my sister who you are to your family. I'm the one that's sort of like the anarchist. I'm always breaking tradition in some way, shape or form, right? So I think my sister was kind of like, Okay, well, you know, I trust you, this is what you want to do. My mom though! My mom was really— she had, and I feel like she's still having, a hard time wrapping her brain around this. I mean, she is a traditional monogamous Christian woman who believes in the sanctity of marriage, believes that when you unite as one, you are one unit, that that bond is unbreakable by God. And, yeah, we had several conversations, where she was almost near tears being like, There's something you're not telling me. For her, what she thought was going on was that you and I were actually separating, like we were actually breaking up but we just didn't have the heart to tell her and so this was a way for us to sort of rip the band aid off very slowly. And I had to keep reassuring her like, No, I probably Promise you if anything else was going on, we would never blindside you in this way. Like, we are so good. We're in a great relationship. We just we just have to do this, you know, and I really don't think—she even listened to the episode. And I asked her about it and, you know, hoping that it would give her some clarity and I don't really think that she still understands it.
Jonathan Mead
I don't know, man. I mean, her paradigm—it's so, you know, based on the way I grew up as well. Like, you're supposed to find one person, it's definitely supposed to be a man and a woman, and yeah, you get together, you have kids, and you live together for the rest of your life under the glory of God. Where as like, what we're doing it's so out of the box that I think it's hard. I think it's hard when you've grown up that way your whole life to embrace or accept something so different. It just seems like, I don't know, the only way it would make sense is if you were, like ,not telling me something.
Ev'Yan Whitney
And I had to swear up and down and tell her like, everything's fine. I promise you, we're not gonna blindside you. I still feel like I have to do that to this day. And, I'm not resentful of that because this is a lot. It's a lot for someone to wrap their brains around, especially my mom who has seen our relationship since the day that it started, you know. So for her, I think this is just very, very different. But she's supportive at least. I mean, she's supportive while not really fully understanding what's going on, but I know that we have her respect. And that's that's enough for me. She don't have to understand it. I just want her respect and her support, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah. She's always been good with that.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, yeah. I'm grateful that our families can give us that space and allow us to be the individuals that we need to be as best as best as they can.
Jonathan Mead
I'm grateful for that, too.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Yeah, um, let's talk about sex for a second because I know that we had some stuff that we were going to be doing. Like we were we talked about the potential of opening our relationship during this time so that we could each get our sexual needs met, and now the Coronavirus has happened and we're literally not allowed to hold hands with someone. But yeah, I miss you so muc. I miss having sex with you. I miss your penis in particular. I miss laying naked with you. Like, I miss having sex with you so much. It's killing me. It's not right.
Jonathan Mead
I know, I was telling you a few days ago this I think is is the longest I've—and it kind of makes me a little bit sad to say this in some ways, but it's just the truth —t's been the longest that I've gone without sex since I first had sex. So I mean, that's been hard on its own, but yeah. I miss all those things, you know, having sex with you and just laying there; the time, you know, before having sex and lead up and all the parts of it. It's fucked up. Like, Fuck you, Coronavirus!
Ev'Yan Whitney
I know. because by now we would have been had sex with each other, you know what I mean? Maybe a few times. Like we would have seen each other a few times by now. And it's really frustrating that that hasn't happened, you know?
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, we should just pour one out right now for all the sex that's not happened.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I know, all the sexual intimacy that is unable to happen between us right now because of that Rona, you know.
Jonathan Mead
It's not right.
Ev'Yan Whitney
It's not right. It really isn't. I'm looking forward to when we can see each other when I can have physical contact with anyone again, but particularly with you.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, we're gonna have to get caught up. Make up for some lost time.
Ev'Yan Whitney
We are! We are going to have to get caught up. I mean, one thing that I will say is that this time is really—I appreciate this time in so many ways, as we've been talking, you know, about for the last almost hour. But in particular, I really appreciate what it's showing me about my own sexuality being away from you. I appreciate how this distance and this time apart from you is showing the ways in which my sexuality has been deeply healed, and the ways in which there's still more healing to be done. And, like, I find it really fascinating—and I don't want to get into this all that much because I'm still processing it—but I find it really fascinating that I feel much more sexual when I'm apart from you. And at first glance, I would think, Oh, it's just because, you know, I really miss you. And, you know, absence is making my lust grow stronger. But when I think about it more deeply, I realized that my sexuality is more present in my life right now because of the fact that it feels more safe to be expressed. And that the lack of safety I feel is manufactured within my own head, because you are an excellent partner to me and there are so many ways that you make me feel safe. But it's just really shedding a light on the ways in which there are still parts of me where my sexuality, my sexual energy, doesn't feel safe to be explored with someone else. And I'm grateful for that insight because it's helping me to get really clear on how much more healing needs to be done and how I want to feel the same goddamn horniness when I'm sitting next to you. Like, it's great to feel that it's great to know that like, Oh, I'm not broken, like there's nothing wrong with me. I do in fact have a sex drive. It's just that my brain and the traumas that I've experienced are getting in the way of that and they become flared up and activated when I'm in space with you. Yeah, I'm really grateful to be learning some valuable lessons about my sexuality during this time.
Jonathan Mead
I'm grateful for that too. I mean, I think about you and, I think we were talking about this on the episode we just recorded on my podcast about how, you know, there's these kind of foundations of your sexuality and without addressing them, you're kind of just like covering them up. And that to me, like what you're talking about, it occurs to me as the more you feel safe with yourself, then you can source that safety in yourself to be able to then open up whether it's me or another partner. And I think that's massive and I'm so grateful that you're having those realizations and that you're, you know, you're sharing it with me here aand we're processing this—it's kind of crazy, you know—with all the listeners right now.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I honestly forgot that we're even recording a goddamn podcast! It just feels like we're just talking to each other but it's fine. It's fine. See, this is my this is my work. This is what I do. This is my wheelhouse, you know, so welcome. Welcome to my world, everyone.
Jonathan Mead
I know, your your level of openness and vulnerability is very admirable.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Oh, thank you.
Jonathan Mead
I don't know if I had anything else to add about that. But yeah, I guess I'm grateful for this too. We've learned a lot. We're still learning.
Ev'Yan Whitney
And I feel like, you know, there's no ending here really. It's like, every time someone asks me, my mom in particular, "So when are you and Jonathan gonna live together again?" I haven't even really given her a date yet because Like, even though I know that you and I have had a date set together, I just don't want—I want to take this day by day. And that's that's what I'm doing. I mean, we have an end goal and we have something, an intention that we're coming to, but every day is different. And yeah, I just, I'm enjoying the spaciousness we have apart from each other while also enjoying the spaciousness around needing to figure out the next steps right now.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, I mean, that in and of itself has been—I feel like if you want to talk about—you were bringing up uncertainty and navigating that. That to me is like, a beautiful expression of that; of resting in that uncertainty of, yeah, we have some ideas and we have kind of some intentions but we also want to keep it live to whatever is going to be best for us as individuals and best for the relationship and that is the priority. And if we're like, too attached to the plan, then we could smother that.
Ev'Yan Whitney
Well, thank you. Thank you, honey for being such a supportive partner through this. I know that the road that we took to get here was rocky and challenging.
Jonathan Mead
Yeah, we had some bumps along the way.
Ev'Yan Whitney
We had a lot of bumps along the way. But yeah, I'm grateful to be journeying through this messy experiment with you.
Jonathan Mead
Thanks. I'm grateful to be on this crazy, beautiful, uncertain and also wonderful ride with you too.
Ev'Yan Whitney
I love you so much and I miss you a lot.
Jonathan Mead
I love you too. And I miss you a lot.
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This podcast is produced, edited and designed by me Ev'Yan Whitney. Find me on my website evyanwhitney.com and on Instagram @evyan.whitney to keep up with me and my work. The Sexually Liberated Woman is made possible with community support from each one of my very special patrons on Patreon. I literally couldn't do this without you. If you want to help sustain The Sexually Liberated Woman, go to patreon.com/slwpocast and become a patron. And don't forget to rate and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others find the show. Thank you so much for being here, and I'll see you in the next episode.